If you look at this photo you wonder what is this? And how did anyone think this was safe?
Why is the safety method on the Eastside going to be of the “pull yourselves up by the bootstraps†variety via cameras to blame personal drivers and old men in yellow vests reminding people to “be safe,†while the City of Los Angeles west of LaCienega get the “silver spoon†variety of safety with expensive barriers and elevated stations?
Why will there will be no testing out Darwinism theory of survival of the fittest on the Westside?
Only the neighborhoods with higher concentrations of poor people and brown and black people are tested with sink and swim theories.
The rail dips just one mile into the magic dividing line of LaCienega and the people on that side of LA who don’t walk or even use public transit as extensively as people on the Eastside get all of our tax dollars spent protecting them from being hit by a train that most of them won’t even take or even be near outside of driving by its protected barrier.
(This is an excerpt of a very long post entitled “Cameras Aren’t Going to Make Fewer People Die.”)
by Browne Molyneux
I didn’t even know the westide had a rail train, where is the rail train station in Westwood?
Hector….you can’t find that information out unless you are a Westwoodian. It’s top secret. I bet no one on the east side knows.
Is this seriously an argument? Racist because MTA has placed alternative transit in an minority-majority region? And, are you implying that people east of Downtown are more likely to not follow traffic signs and see a train than those west of downtown?
i\’ll reveal the secret:
http://www.buildexpo.org
and the other secret site:
http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/exposition/default.htm
I grew up in San Francisco, where non-grade-separated streetcars ran through what were then almost entirely white neighborhoods. People didn’t walk or drive into streetcars.
For Metro, grade separation is entirely a function of TRAFFIC volume and congestion on cross-streets. It has nothing to do with pedestrian safety.
Eastsider,
Although I agree with your points, where were you at the time Metro had the community meetings?
The Eastside Gold Line has a COMPLETELY grade seperated subway section. The westside doesn\’t even have a subway at all right now.
The fact of the matter is that it is very expensive to grade separate. Metro has a grade separation policy that stipulates an intersection will be grade separated if a certain number of vehicles per hour cross an intersection. The westside will have more intersections grade separated because of the greater population density and number of vehicles on the road. The East L.A. Gold Line was put in a tunnel for almost two miles in the densest portion and returns to grade where it’s a less dense.
I don’t entirely disagree with you however. I think some neighborhoods in South Los Angeles were short changed along the Expo line. From personal observation Crenshaw and Western at Exposition are very congested streets and the population density in these areas are very high.
I think it would be good if you expanded this article out a little more by doing some additional research. A lot of people are going to have the same observation that you had as the Expo Line is built. You can start by looking at the Enviromental Impact reports which are available for free at http://www.metro.net and http://www.buildexpo.org Citizen transit advocates like SOCATA and the Transit Coalition are good information resources as well.
It is good to advocate for better solutions for your community. Rail offers greater capacity, faster travel times and is more environmentally friendly. The trick is how do you make sure it gets built in a manner that is responsive to and enhanced by the community?
Start by being informed and finding out when community meetings occur. The East Side Gold Line was not built in a vacuum. Dozens of community meetings occurred before and during the construction in which citizens had the opportunity to provide their input. Right now they are in the early stages of looking to extend the Gold LIne to Whittier. On the other end they are looking to connect the Blue and Expo Lines with the Gold Line. Do you want to have a say in that process? How about the 710 freeway connector? These community meetings are happening RIGHT NOW with metro and CalTrans and it’s your opportunity to affect how these things get built by showing up. Don’t just point and say “racism” Do something.
With respect,
Jason Saunders
Good god this Browne person sounds like a fucking broken record about the Gold Line extension. If you are that stupid to ignore flashing train signs and stops, then perhaps the gene pool is better without you. Every other city on this planet has a similar setup and it has nothing to do with racism. Stop playing the victim card!
all the regulars here are constant victims.
So the Eastside gets an at-grade train and white ass Santa Monica has now opted to have the Expo run at-grade INSTEAD OF ELEVATED through pretty much the entirety of their city. Those white folks are always copying us….first it was Elvis, now this!
Why all the complaining?!? There are hispanic, black, white, asian people all over this city were the train runs underground e.g. macarthur park, koreatown, east hollywood, hollywood etc…stop with this notion of an at-grade rail being tested on poor minorities. There are at-grade trains all over the world e.g. Portland, SF, Amsterdam etc. that work efficiently and have nothing to do with race. Have you ever been to Amsterdam? The streets are jammed with people and bicycles and the trains just cruise right by, 2 inches from your face. How about the at-grade rail through South Pasadena? I guess that pretty messed up too?..Oh how those rich white people got screwed. And what about the Orange line? By your argument I guess all those “concentrations of poor people and brown and black people” from Studio City to Warner Center got screwed too. And if you have did your research you would have learned that the Westside is getting at-grade rail in to Santa Monica. So…next time learn a little before you start bitching and pulling the race card.
Sheesh, let’s just get some public transportation in this town and be happy that they are at least creating some alternatives for this city.
sincerely,
Camilo
K-Towner for Life
I can’t load the Bus Bench for some reason, Browne. But from the excerpt I’ve read here, I disagree almost entirely with your post.
With some acclimation, people on the Eastside will get used to the train. Previous comments say what I wanted to say.
Pointing out the obvious = yer a victim. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
Camilo, you beat me to my point. I was going to mention Amsterdam as well. If any of these pro grade-seperation crybabies could see the trams rumbling down Leidsestraat (essentially a pedestrian shopping lane) they’d probably faint.
Like Jeff J, I too also lived in SF and I can tell you, this brown person found it fairly easy to avoid death by light rail. Survival of the fittest? Hardly. Just use of common sense.
People need to calm down and see how this pans out first before crying foul on the basis of public safety or unprobable planning conspiracies. The Gold Line is going to be good for the city and even better for Eastside.
This is the same arguement that’s being thrown around the Westside, the blacks don’t know how to cross the street so they need the train grade-seperated. HELLO!? There’s a freakin high school in front of one of the stops on the Gold Line! If you can’t see or hear the train, then you need help, unless you do need the help!
Uh, we just did critical thinking with the previous comments. We came up with this: white folks have at-grade trains now too because they can\’t ever come up with anything themselves. They are hiding trains from all of those \”Mexicans\” in Mac Arthur Park. And it aint smart to shadow box with a moving train.
There are at-grade trains running all over the world. Ms. Browne-Goodmon is looking more and more like an over educated fool to had finally realized that a train was indeed opening in East LA and begin criticizing it…..when? Well on the precipice of it going into revenue service. I mean when did this thing begin being built? Like 2005 or something. (And if you did indeed write an article about this issue prior please direct me to it, I\’d love to read it.)
And yes there is a such thing as environmental racism and injustice. But I\’d expect a lettered girl like herself and her tag cronie Damien to be trying to shut down the 10, 110 and 105 which completely divides our communities, spews pollution upon us and noise 24 hours a day and has been linked to causing certain forms of cancer and asthma in ourselves and our children. But of course krazy talk like shutting down freeways won\’t even make you popular with the po\’folks……so you go around bitching about an electrically powered choo choo train that has bells, whistles and flashing lights. How convenient!
It’s amazing how racist some of you are.
First off if one group of people get one kind of treatment and another group of people get a different kind of treatment and the only thing that seems similar in the group that always get preferential treatment is the ethnic group that’s called racism, if the term racism hurts you too much then you can call it classism. I think we can safely say that Metro has classism issues.
Metro did get sued for being racist and had to change some things, that was in 1996 not 1956
http://www.cityprojectca.org/blog/archives/73
Metro does have the most dangerous rail in the USA, the Blue Line.
I think METRO possibly has some issues owing to who mainly rides the rail, but this is an across the board LA thing.
I think the Gold Line around Indiana is unsafe and apparently Metro agrees with me which is why they are installing cameras and not opening up the Gold Line until those cameras are installed.
No Metro isn’t going to come right out and say, “Yeah we built this really fucked up train, so to cover our tracks and save money we’ll throw some cameras up instead of making it safe.” It’s not that ground breaking what I said it’s called deductive logic, you know where dictionary.com is right?
And I’m sorry does the Eastside and East Los Angeles look like freaking Amsterdam or Portland? No it doesn’t I think it looks more like Lower Eastside in New York and so would you put an at grade train with no barriers are protection in the LES, no you wouldn’t that would be stupid.
And why does the Eastside have to get acclimated to the train? What the hell why doesn’t the Westside or South Pas or Pasadena have to get acclimated, why do working class communities always have to adjust, why can’t working class communities get the same treatment as middle and upper middle class communities, why the hell don’t working class people demand to be treated with respect. The way the MGLEE was built was disrespectful.
All you have to do is look at the difference between the line that goes at grade in South Pasadena and does a curve and look at the line at Indiana. You don’t have to listen to me. You don’t have to listen to anyone go see for yourselves. Go around Mission and go around Indiana and you tell me if that looks fair to you?
Hey I’m just writing this to inform people what is up and so I can have the misfortune of saying I told you so.
If you want the facts behind what I say go to the original post or maybe later tonight I will have more to say.
Browne
Browne, You are so right, I think I’m the first person to have an accident near those tracks and it hasn’t even opened yet!!! The whole thing is a disaster waiting to happen, and I can only sadfully imagine how many people will be seriously hurt here or worse.You know it was initially proposed by Supervisor Molina that it be fully underground, but thanks to the westside supervisors that’s not the case now.
Oh c’mon Browne I don’t know why you bother. The best thing to happen to the Eastside (real, fast, cheap, good transportation) is just another way for you to complain about how you’re being kept down.
Your posts always have such a whiney, chip-on-my-shoulder attitude.
I love this blog -read and post regularly – but i skip right over most of your posts because of it.
Why don’t you try pointing out something you like about the eastside? If you hate living here so much feel free to leave. How about you let those of us who live here and appreciate progress comment?
I’d be willing to bet I’ve never seen you at a VELA event, or any of the East LA cityhood meetings. Or the Metro meetings, or anything else that could actually do good.
Anyway, the other posters have sufficiently debunked your posting so I have nothing more to add.
I wish that Chavo, random hero and the rest would stop letting you post on LAeastside.
A few months ago I tried to get a speed bump on my street (around the corner from this metro station)—because we get side swiped and hit and run all the time by speeding cars–plus little kids walk up my street to elementary school. So I get a letter from the street maintenance department’s manager saying that “yes” it is true that people are driving 30mph+ on my residential street(!) AND even though we should have a speed bump, sign or something—they have no money to do anything. Then the salt on the wound was that the letter also added that I should call the Hollenbeck Police department to start a Neighborhood watch. So, I guess it is my responsibility (and my neighbors) to stand in the middle of my street and stop the cars all day long from going too fast. Seriously, would they write that shit to someone with a similar problem in Beverly Hills?
Browne – As usual you cry racism. Trams and trolleys opperate all over the world and in many other cities in the US just fine. I’d like to give Angelenos more credit than assuming they cannot cross the street safely. I don’t buy the transit racism claims because the low income communities are getting rail transit first! They got the blue line, they got the Subways, the gold line phase one goes thru low income areas on its way to ritzy Pasadena and the East LA extention is through a low income area. WTF?!? Give us a break and put the race card away. It’s tired.
Well, I think Browne’s post should be titled “Separate but Un-equal”. And for anyone to say that the Eastside citizens should just shut up, pay more attention, and feel fortunate to even have some transit is racist and classist on it’s face.
That’s like saying the schools on the Eastside don’t necessarily merit the same grade of teachers, facilities, and books as exist in other parts of town but the people of the Eastside should consider themselves lucky and fortunate to even have schools.
What kind of bullshit is that!
If Rapid transit is safe and clean on the Westside then there is no other reason except racism that the transit system on the Eastside shouldn’t have the same safeguards and service quality.
Fuck that attitude! Anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive or blatantly racist.
“And for anyone to say that the Eastside citizens should just shut up, pay more attention, and feel fortunate to even have some transit is racist and classist on it’s face.
That’s like saying the schools on the Eastside don’t necessarily merit the same grade of teachers, facilities, and books as exist in other parts of town but the people of the Eastside should consider themselves lucky and fortunate to even have schools.”
Um, no it is not. But then again it is pointless to argue with people who enjoy constantly playing victim and crying racism, classism, or whatever -ism turns them on
I like how people make the argument that at grade level would never fly in the westside, namely cause there is no rail in the westside and most of the proposed projects go through working class in low income areas, with the exception of a few. You can take that either way u want. ALso, i dont understand why people think the gold standard for who things should be is the westside, have u people spent time in the westside,it really not that great. I think the eastside has better public transit. I find it hard to believe that there is racism on metro’s part in building the rail especially when u consider that just a mile away the rail goes underground for a two mile stretch of Boyle Heights, unless u want to are that that section of BH is wealthier or whiter. Lets give the people on the Eastside the credit the deserve and assume they will know when to cross a rail and when not to.
Also i image the camera may also be there as photo enforcement since that portion in that portion of 3rd street u cant make a left turn.
I guess these are the type of “quality” comments we get when LA Curbed links to us. It’s the reason why I and a lot of other folks I know quit reading that website.
Some of you may disagree with Browne’s post and that’s fine but we could have done without the vitriolic, mean-spirited ways of expressing that disagreement. Are the personal attacks necessary?
And this kinda of comment is just plain stupid: “all the regulars here are constant victims.” To be critical, to ask questions is NOT being a victim. It’s about empowering oneself and one’s community.
Thanks for the post Browne, please keep us updated! By the way, I’m working on a post on how traffic laws are so much more strict on the Westside than the Eastside because the folks with money over there know how to butter up their elected officials.
“And I’m sorry does the Eastside and East Los Angeles look like freaking Amsterdam or Portland? No it doesn’t I think it looks more like Lower Eastside in New York and so would you put an at grade train with no barriers are protection in the LES, no you wouldn’t that would be stupid.”
Definitely (Eastside doesn’t look like anything but the Eastside)…but it DEFINITELY does NOT look like the Lower Eastside even by a long shot. If anything Amsterdam looks much more like the lower eastside due to the density and height of buildings. But Browne, I feel like your are missing my point…Amsterdam is bustling with people and bicycles on the road and in the streets…the place is frickin CROWDED yet they somehow manage to get trains through safely. here is a link just to show you what a highly successful and efficient train looks like with no barriers…and btw make sure to tell the person to watch out because they probably don’t know any better…or just tell them the Amsterdam Transit is racist, classist, or whatever you want to call it.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4Xse6HZNpfI/R19O-3bWSUI/AAAAAAAAAH4/dUFli4WGkpM/s288/Picture+219.jpg
“Um, no it is not. But then again it is pointless to argue with people who enjoy constantly playing victim and crying racism, classism, or whatever -ism turns them on”
Uh, yes it is, but I guess it’s pointless to argue with people who think that one part of town should presume they will be treated as equal citizens, and when they get the short end of the stick they should just assume that it was not racism or classism that plays into the scenario and shut up. Uh, oh no.
And screaming at the top of one’s lungs and demanding accountability and equal treatment is not being a victim it’s called being pro-active and not rolling over.
These fuckers only wish we were acting like victims but those days are gone.
What is this person even talking about? There is no rail on the westside. And besides, the Wilshire corridor is the densest in California, making it most suited for subway. The Eastside extension is fantastic and safe. Most cities have light rail. Look at San Francisco, Boston, Portland and countless other cities where trains are at grade and they are safe. People just need to be alert.
Chimatli,
I will keep you updated.
To the nasty commeters just for reference I love nasty comments. Keep them coming. There is nothing that makes me happier the upsetting the status quo. All these comments means this matters to you. That’s great. F*ck the status quo and everyone who worships them. See I’m mean-spirted too ha-ha!!!
I have an actual factual comment coming, but later. Right now I’m off to cocktails.
Amazing how people act, how dare I have an opinion what I said is true and what do these assholes have to say about it, “Well the stupid people will just get hit by a train,” or “People should just watch out.”
Seriously!!!…Why don’t we get rid of seat belts and air bags and social security and public schools and traffic lights, lets have survival of the fittest. I love that for the people of LA Curbed, half of these people saying people should just watch out for the train wouldn’t make it day without the gov’t wiping their ass.
And this isn’t about that, its about not putting a dangerous fast moving vehicle with no safety considerations down a pedestrian and car traffic heavy area.
And as I said Metro knows its dangerous that’s what the safety people and cameras are for, that’s is some utter bullshit. I personlly don’t know why more people on the Eastside and in East Los Angeles aren’t more pissed about this. I would be some where yelling at some body if I lived by that thing or had to go by it.
As I said earlier why don’t you go down during rush hour and check it out yourself…do whatever you want when that thing opens you’ll see.
Browne
Browne I live two blocks from the Atlantic station and I have no problem with it. If you’re dumb enough to get in the way of a several-ton vehicle that moves on FIXED tracks, at a FIXED speed, at predictable intervals, with CLEAR signage you are beyond hope.
As others have pointed out, we are plenty smart enough on the eastside to avoid getting hit. Thousands of Europeans live in much closer proximity to at-grade streetcars without a problem.
Sure, it would be nice if the original heavy rail subway to the eastside had been built but you can blame short-sighted local voters in 1996 for that one.
My favorite argument is about the westside. You are fully aware that there is no light rail of any kind on the westside, right?
And DQ, for you I love this one:
“If Rapid transit is safe and clean on the Westside then there is no other reason except racism that the transit system on the Eastside shouldn’t have the same safeguards and service quality.”
There IS NO rapid transit other than busses on the westside! Unless of course you consider the south bay the westside, and FYI the green line is neither safe, nor clean, nor particularly good in service quality.
Oh it’s dumbass again, I mean justB. I apologize for calling you a dumbass.
The track is fixed, but it’s on a curve. The cars aren’t fixed. The people aren’t fixed. There are three signals around that Indiana curve and it’s confusing. Do you stop here or there or where? Human error, heard of that it means sometimes accidents happen and it seems that people will have to be perfect for an accident to not happen there. It’s right next to a school. It’s so close its “someone could push you into a train” close to a school. The curve goes up along a crosswalk that seems pretty busy and this was on Sunday. I can’t imagine the insanity that will happen on a Monday 5pm.
On the original post I have a video of the section I am talking about, but since you live on Atlantic you can go down to Indiana on your freetime and look on your on.
And just for reference you do understand the train I’m talking about on the Westside is the Expo line? They are building it (right now,) if you left your neighborhood and read a paper (they have papers online now) you’d know that. Is it not in Wikipedia yet, your source for information? Let me go and put it in there so you know it actually exists. You do know anyone can edit Wikipedia, just saying because I want to help you.
http://www.buildexpo.org/
Ernest already posted this, but you seem insistent on the fact that the Westside line is some thing that is a figment of my imagination to me that right there should strike you out of this conversation, but I am having fun right now so I will continue. Yes I understand it’s not running yet but they are building it I have seen it with my own eyes, just like the MGLEE it’s not running yet but it will be, because you see the tracks and stuff right? Do you understand what I am saying? Is this concept too big for you? Are my words too big? Should I just stick with one syllable words?
Maybe if I communicated this in picture form you would be able to comprehend this better, but the comment section doesn’t allow me draw a picture for stupid people.
Browne
So how much of the Expo Line will be grade separated? Santa Monica’s a pretty white/rich area, isn’t it? I guess that section of the Expo Line will be entirely underground.
And I really love it! “justB” with foot in mouth,
“There IS NO rapid transit other than busses on the Westside! Unless of course you consider the south bay the Westside, and FYI the green line is neither safe, nor clean, nor particularly good in service quality.”
Ahem, Uh, hmmm, I refer you to Browne’s comment above, it’s called the Expo Line and will end up going through Culver City, West Los Angeles, and Santa Monica. Unless you are from Podunk, Kentucky you should know that this is referred to as the “Westside†here in LA.
And as a further aide to help your confusion about not only the Expo Line (going through the Westside), but about how dangerous street level crossings are and why many people are upset that on the Eastside we get street level crossings and told by many that we are crybabies and ingrates, not to mention suffering from victim syndrome when we show concern and are pissed about the inequality in safety along the rail tracks.
Here is an article from the LA Times June 24, 2009 about just how dangerous street level crossings are,
“The board resolution relates to the second phase of the project, which would run from Culver City to Santa Monica. Phase 1 from downtown Los Angeles to Culver City has already generated considerable controversy about street-level crossings near schools. That segment is under construction.
The resolution notes that MTA’s Blue Line from Long Beach to Los Angeles, which has street-level crossings, has become the nation’s deadliest light-rail line. It also states that the Expo Line should not be built near the two schools because it could violate the district’s 128-foot distance requirement for active rail lines.â€
Got it now? Sabes Chavez?
“Uh, yes it is, but I guess it’s pointless to argue with people who think that one part of town should presume they will be treated as equal citizens, and when they get the short end of the stick they should just assume that it was not racism or classism that plays into the scenario and shut up. Uh, oh no.
And screaming at the top of one’s lungs and demanding accountability and equal treatment is not being a victim it’s called being pro-active and not rolling over.
These fuckers only wish we were acting like victims but those days are gone.”
Someone call the Waaambulance!
Listen up Mr. Don Quixote, I was born and raised in the area that the Gold Line extension runs through and absolutely thrilled it is being built.
If you and your cohorts are so concerned about racist light rail, is anyone teaching these people you claim to be so concerned about that flashing train lights and warning sounds mean “stay away from train tracks”?
¿Entiendes Mendez?
I don’t know how anyone could say that the subway part of the East Side’s rail line covers the densely populated area, where it emerges above ground in less dense areas. I’ve seen where that line is, driven down the street it goes down. (Chavez? …forget what street it goes down, but I followed it a few months back). There is no part of that rail line that is “less dense”. It’s highly populated, all the way through, with kids running everywhere and old people crossing streets at every corner.
I understand the fiscal argument. But to play devil’s advocate, the money that’s going to be doled out in lawsuits due to people getting clipped by that train is going to far exceed whatever the cost of the barriers would be. I’m playing devil’s advocate here. After all, I think the barriers should be there simply for moral reasons.
A human condition that crosses all economic classes and colors of skin dictates that some people are going to screw up. Some mom is going to be looking the other way when her little one jets right in front of that train. Some old guy with bad hearing is going to be off in his own world and is going to step right into the train’s path. This WOULD happen in the better areas where there are safety barriers, if they weren’t there. The belief that it wouldn’t is delusional at best, outright racist at worst.
As far as “cities all over the world” having similar setups as East Side’s line, do any of you actually have the statistics to back up your claims that these trains run without incident? I seem to recall SF having problems with light rail vs. pedestrian accidents.
The real issue is how fast the train will run. If it runs slowly, it’ll be safe. If it’s fast, it’ll be dangerous.
Here’s a link to a video of a guy who jumps on the back of a train in Amsterdam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_B-6TSz10E
That train is slow, like 3mph. Will MTA run the train slowly in the span between 1st/Lorena to 3rd/Indiana?
I think the key things to prevent are a train that barrels out of the subway tunnel at 1st st, and excessive acceleration down 3rd st past the freeway.
They’ll argue that commute times will be too long. Too bad. If they wanted it to be fast, they could have run it underground or elevated all the way through. Otherwise, welcome to the reality of the urban train: it is slower than your car.
They slowed the Gold line in South Pasadena, due to political pressure, even though their “walkable city” vision is mostly a vision and some street level retail facades. People drive to the coffee shops.
We don’t need another Blue line death train.
Racism/Classism does exist in the MTA board. Originaly the eastside was going to get a full underground SUBWAY. It was supposed to be built simultaneous to the one in Hollywood. This was because the late U.S. Congressman Roybal knew the history of the eastside always getting shortchanged. A SUBWAY is what the eastside was going to get.
Roybal dies and his legacy was not honored when people in the MTA board voted to do the Hollywood line first, Congress did nothing about it. So while building the Hollywood line- guess what happend!!! All kinds of things started going wrong during the construction and so they needed to get money to fix and repare what they fuc*ed up. Guess where they got the money from. The MTA board voted to raid the eastside subway budget. So after they finished the nice Hollywood line its time to build the eastside subway, Oh wait, what!? The eastside doesn’t have enough money. Royball predicted this scenerio. So, we are left with a little trolly on steroids to connect us to… the north east of LA County.
Now, I hear talk about a subway to the sea. That is awesome. The eastside will be connected all the way to the sea, right after we transfer on to a subway at union station.
@Caxcan
True but not entirely true, you’re conveniently leaving out stuff. You left out the part where at the helm of Zev the county voted in 1997/8 against using any local funds for building any subway in LA County which effectively killed the Eastside Subway Extension. Where was the Eastside when this vote went down? Again, dragging the feet and after the fact complaining. This was a countywide decision! Why didn’t the Eastside fight for its subway?* So now you end up w/ as Molina calls it, a little choo choo train. My people, my people.
*The sentiment was that if the rich white Westside certainly didn’t want a subway why should we? The first step in breaking down racism and classism is to free yourself from a slave mentality. Where was the organization on the Eastside to fight and defeat this obvious classist/racist measure to deny East LA of its much deserved subway? “Well I guess if massah don won it en his pawt of town, why shoold we”? Sad.
Fallopia,
I didn’t conveniently leave things out. I was expecting you and other people to contribute to the conversation. Yeah we bitch about the past but we are also preparing for the future. We learn from our mistakes and the actions of others. We do not have a slave mentality it is our reality.
You are the one with the problem talking down and beign condescending to people as if you are all mighty. We have endured and so we will endure.
Browne & DQ you guys are fully aware that the portion of the expo line (which I am quite familiar with) in Santa Monica will run AT GRADE, right?
In addition, my original point still stands – there is no light rail on the westside. There’s none on the eastside yet, either, but the expo line is even further away from being complete.
And I can see the Atlantic station from the end of my block, and I still don’t see the problem.
As for your other points here you go:
“The track is fixed, but it’s on a curve. The cars aren’t fixed. The people aren’t fixed.”
And this is different than a regular street how? Do you propose that every busy street in the city be grade separated from the sidewalk?
“There are three signals around that Indiana curve and it’s confusing. Do you stop here or there or where?”
There are clear signs and markings on the ground telling you where to stop. There are also very clear lighted signs that tell you when the train is nearby. Plus, with the exception of the actual intersections, there are curbs between the traffic lanes and the tracks. So in that way I would suggest that it’s SAFER than a regular road.
” Human error, heard of that it means sometimes accidents happen and it seems that people will have to be perfect for an accident to not happen there.”
Yes, but we cannot protect everyone from themselves. At some point people must be responsible for their own actions.
“It’s right next to a school. It’s so close its “someone could push you into a train†close to a school.”
You realize that Hamasaki elementary school is a few blocks away and opens right onto a fairly busy stretch of 1s street, right? How is it different between the school being right next to a road with distracted, cell-phone-talking drivers?
“The curve goes up along a crosswalk that seems pretty busy and this was on Sunday. I can’t imagine the insanity that will happen on a Monday 5pm.”
Again, so? I mean, sure, in a perfect world we would have a subway. But we don’t. Do not let pursuit of perfection and a sense of being wronged cloud your judgement.
Incidentally voters in 1997 voted to kill it. COUNTYWIDE as others have pointed out. Why did we not organize against the measure? We Eastsiders did this to ourselves.
Hush justB! You are making too much sense for some of the regulars on this blog! 😉
“Why did we not organize against the measure? We Eastsiders did this to ourselves.”
This is like blaming the Jews for not rising up against the Nazis.
Uh oh! Nazi talk! It was just a matter of time before Godwin’s Law took effect here.
The East Side got Subway restaurants. Maybe that was their rouse all along?
“You guys want Subways?”
You can’t put anything past them anymore.
Caxcan, of course racism and classism exist on the MTA’s board. These LA Curbed trolls think that in order for someone to be a racist, they have to wear a white sheet and ride around on a horse while wielding a noose. Racism hasn’t existed since the slaves were freed. Since then, why, whites have been the real victims of racism. White women in the south will tell you of times they had to endure extremely fresh attitudes from blacks when telling them to get off the sidewalk and walk on the street, where they belong. “He called me a cracker whore! Now if that’s not racist… hello?!?”
The truth is today’s racism is a passive form of racism. It exists precisely in places like MTA’s boardroom. And, race is never brought up, just policy that everyone in the room knows will effect race… They know the LA East Side is mostly Mexican American. They know South Central is mostly black and Mexican American. They know Santa Monica is white. So when they say, “do we really want to throw this much money into a project in East Los Angeles”? They know good and well what they’re saying as those words flow out of their mouths. “You can’t tell me we’re going to spend this much money on Mexicans. We gave them a fucking train. They can take it or leave it”. Aren’t we even seeing the same sentiment from some of our LA Curbed friends? Of course, they think because they’re omitting the actual word Mexican that they’re exempt from racism accusations. Wrong. Racism accusation, right at you. Snobs. Oh, and I checked out LA Curbed. It sucks. Boring, upper class liberal captain obvious bullshit about every mundane, irrelevant event that happens in LA. I’ll take a feisty, truth to power blog like this one that looks (and finds) racism in every corner!
Caxan – dude, seriously that was uncalled for.
I love the eastside and la raza and all that it stands for too but seriously that’s Bullshit and you know it.
It was a democratically passed measure. Thank your fellow county residents, not some unnamed dictator.
Goodwins law is an attempt to discredit anyone who uses any reference to Nazis, by assuming the Jews are the “most persecuted people”. I am willing to bet that you respond to critical views of the Jewish state, by very simply calling people, “Anti Semites!!” We should never forget the evils of the Nazis and we should never stop referencing them when needed. If you Very Simple wish to end this conversation, say so. I bet this discussion isn’t over because not everyone has the same pitty and sensativities as you do.
How nice it would be to just say a word and all of a sudden it is game over, LOL! How convenient for you.