The LA Times’ Institutional Racism. Black peoples public lynching courtesy of the LA Times.

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My figurative image of what the LA Times is doing to the Black Community.

Feelings on Prop 8.

I’m upset that it did pass. Gay rights is a civil rights issue. I am not surprised that it passed, but that doesn’t stop me from being pissed about it.

I’m also angry about how the LA Times focus in regards to this seems to be just on black people. Just in this wide swath. Why aren’t we divided into different demographics like educated or Christian or blue collar? Why are we not individuals like how white people are viewed as individuals in the LA Times?

Kevin Roderick LA Observed (a long time comrade of people at the LA Times) makes a point to say 70% of the black population voted for Yes on 8 (over and over and over again), but fails to point out that we are six percent of California.

But on the other hand he doesn’t link one blog by an African-American writer (I’m pretty sure that was on purpose), though he does link blogs that talk about African-Americans celebrating, in African-American sections of LA after the Obama win.

If the black issue was such a concern to him then why not at least do that.

(And if the rights of gay people were important to him, why doesn’t he talk about it a little bit more. The time for talk about gay people and their rights was years ago, not two weeks before an election. I talk about equal rights for homosexuals, immigrants, racial minorities and woman all of the time, because I care about people, not because I want to denigrate another group, which sorry Kev, that sort what it looks like here. You don’t seem to care too much about civil rights.)

Hey and I thought Obama was the best person for the job. What’s up with the mainstream media not acknowledging Obama as biracial and then trying to imply that anyone who voted for him did it as a favor to black people?

You know what is “Obama won, black people voted for Prop 8.” And variations on that

What the fuck is that supposed to be implying?

Here is a newsflash. Negroes aren’t magical. To put that on us is prejudice. (Just like for minorities to paint gay people as being magical and therefore shouldn’t be as racist or sexist is prejudice. The “good” stereotypes are as bad as the “bad’ ones, because it assumes a minority biological thing can turn people into the borg.)  We are just like everyone else the good and the bad. No one educated the African-American community on the Prop 8 and so this is what happens when you assume that we have some special empathy that makes us understand things on different levels. We don’t. We need information and to be talked to just like everyone else and not just when you want something.

This is one of the many reasons I don’t like Democrats. You people (yes I mean that in a derogatory way) in general are a complete joke. If your vote for Obama was a favor to me, you can have it back. Put McCain up there. I’m going to be fine regardless of who is in office. If this place burns to the ground, I’ll be ok I have a passport and I know how to shoot. If this place continues to be one of the most powerful countries in the world, I will still be ok. I have a $100,000 degree and good diction.

I’m not an idiot with five credit cards, a house that I can’t afford, and a commute to the suburbs of hell. I don’t want to have an overpriced wedding, I don’t care about or believe in god or gods or whatever the hell nonsense you believe in,  I don’t have kids I have to send to college, I am not living above my means. All of the stuff you “mainstream too afraid to rock the boat pseudo” liberals who refuse to talk to people outside of your exact demographic whether you be black, gay, white, Latino, Asian etc…I don’t give a shit about any of the items that you want (though I’ll fight for your right to completely ruin your life and go into debt) so you can take that favor and shove it up back to where it came from.

I will tell you I’m still pissed about 187 passing. I am still pissed that we still have the legalized guest worker slavery program in the US. Why doesn’t the US have open boarders and dual citizenship for people from Mexico?

You mainstream liberals (especially within the media) will never fight for anything real. We need a new major civil rights bill that covers gay people, immigrant (illegal or legal), racial minorities, women and transgendered people. One bill with everyone on it, but you guys don’t have the balls to do something like that, because each of those above groups think they are a little better than the other in some way.

  • I’m sick of homophobic racial minorities.
  • I’m sick of racist gay people.
  • I’m sick of sexist racial minorities and gay men.
  • Oh yeah and I’m sick of straight white people who do the same things.

I will tell you truly I don’t give a rat’s ass that Obama is of African descent. Sorry, I don’t. I am a cynical person. I will tell you how I feel about him with his actions.

Apparently Kevin Roderick and his friends at the LA Times think that black people are evil, which is why they are obsessed by our “evil” ways. I guess they think since we have a “black” president that they are going to take black people down via reconstruction period style.

Maybe the LA Times and Kevin Roderick are getting ready to form the Knights of the Ink and Paper. The KIP, they’ll go around lynching black people in blogs and newspapers in the dark of night, wearing their screen names as disguises.

Another thing I think is of interest is that the numbers everyone is using was taken from an exit poll was done by CNN (the news organization that brought the craptacular “Black in America” series to the airwaves), based on a sample of 2200 people and if they used a sample of 7% the grand total of black people used in this poll was 154. I know how mainstream papers and press cover the black community and I have a lot of questions in regards to this poll. I saw some members of the press in Compton on the day of the election. They ran in and ran out.

Am I saying that black people don’t have a problem with homosexuality. Nope, I believe black people have a problem at the same level as white people when you account for age, religion and educational attainment. Notice on the poll they have virtually no facts (why are our ages non applicable) for the black people who voted and they have all kinds of little fact for the white people.

The LA Times Now has a whole post (I think they may have two or three now and the black people who work for the LA Times you are a joke. You need to say something for real. You need to say something for or against Prop 8. You need to say something about this coverage of black people. And you need to stop being chicken shit cowards. There is always work at the post office, if you are afraid for your economic well-being.)  about it complete with very nasty comments about black people and how certain people want to make laws to take away black people’s rights.

I’m not upset with the commenters. That was a post that was written to incite people and it did just that.

In this whole fiasco I’m not upset with gay people. Even the ones that shouted “Nigger!” to African-Americans that passed by them in Westwood. I understand their anger. I’d be angry too. That is not to say that I’m not disappointed with that very small segment of assholes who happen to be gay who are letting themselves be manipulated by a society that has no affinity for them, BUT I’m well aware the basis of this is in the LA Times and mainstream paper focusing squarely on African-Americans and no one else.

The average person always strikes out at the easiest target. And in LA who is the easiest target, African-Americans, we’re the smallest number and most obviously different than everyone else, but for the LA Times to do this, it points to something much more sinister.

It looks like the kind of racism that is the most dangerous kind. Institutional racism. Institutional homophobia is what passed Prop 8.

Is the LA Times a national paper or a tabloid? When I read it I feel like I am reading the NY Post, but a much less entertaining version of it.  

Want the facts about Prop 8. 

Some facts (from the LA Times, so what’s up with the focus on black people, well I know what is up):

  • The vast majority of counties that were over 75% white voted for Prop 8.
  • The majority of counties that went for Bush in 2004 went for Prop 8.
  • And while white people may have been split, numbers wise their split for, far out numbers black people’s 70% for, so what’s the deal with the focus on black people?

Don’t think I’m trying to now say white people are more homophobic than black people, I don’t believe that either, BUT I’d like a free pass once in awhile. A black person kills a person, my fault. OJ Simpson, also my fault. You think you lost your job owing to affirmative action, all my fault. I mean come on.

I don’t bring up Latinos in this, because in general leading up to this vote even though Latinos are higher in number the focus on Prop 8 has seemed to be “why black people are going to vote for it” and then a half-hearted Latinos are going to vote for it too. So as to not seem so narrowly and oddly focused on African-Americans in LA.  A sort of “we’re not racist, we’re talking about Latinos too.” The “I’m not touching you” way to be racist.

I never heard the term “African-American” and about people’s concern about African-Americans in LA as much as I have before Prop 8, but even then no one who was African-American AND is not afraid to discuss being African-American was asked a question or invited to dialogue about the issue. In fact the times I tried to talk on Prop 8 on many mainstream LA blogs I was told I was being negative and that I should shut-up. No one even tried to talk to the black community about No on 8. They just talked shit about us online.

This from blogs and papers that had no concern about reporting on African-Americans outside of the Homicide Report on the LA Times and that we robbed someone in the LA blogosphere.

Has anyone who says all of these things made an attempt to go to the black community and talk to them (not at them) but to them. How about going to gay black people who live in black neighborhoods (the living with and around other black people part is very important) and supporting those people in what they do. I have talked to black people about homosexuality, at a church in a black neighborhood and they weren’t happy about it, but at least I made an effort.

So I am not saying that the conversation should not be had. It should. It should be had over and over and over again. In ALL communities. I am saying that this shouldn’t be the only conversation being had.  I’m saying this is not how you have a conversation by just lumping all black people into one group and blaming us for a Proposition that was funded largely by people who look nothing like us (Mormons) and excluded us from even joining their church until the 1970s.

(What’s up with the TV coverage of Prop 8 coverage showing Samoan Mormons? How hard did they have to search for that?)

Now painting Mormons as bigots that is fine you choose to be Mormon, but this all black people thing, well give us the benefit of the doubt at least have the courtesy to put fundamentalist Christian blacks in a separate category than other black people, because that’s the black people who passed it within the black community (just like with the white, Asian and Latino communities.)

But also remember to keep in mind we are only six percent of California, so unless only 11% of people in California showed up to vote…I’m not sure how we alone did that.   

People who are angry at black people specifically should look towards former Bush Country (where many people’s aunts and uncles and parents and grandparents live) and also maybe we should all work towards understanding each other a little better. Also know this, gay people who are looking at black people as the enemy owing to the really wrong coverage by the LA Times; you are being set up. I can smell this is a set up and that’s why I also urge black people also to not get caught up on the racist white gay guy thing. That guy is not a fair representation of gay people. Racism isn’t any more prevalent in gay culture than it is in straight culture, but it’s there, because just because someone is a minority it doesn’t mean they are “magical”. We’re all humans and humans have flaws.

I urge people to not get caught up in this institutional racism/homophobia game. The mainstream system of hate is egging on this fight to keep  African-American sisters and brothers and Gay and Lesbian sisters and brothers separated and distracted from real issues.

Work on legislation that includes equal rights for everyone!!! 

But of course this is the LA Times. The paper that didn’t want to run a cartoon by Garry Trudeau, because what if Obama didn’t win, because that wouldn’t be real journalism.

This from a paper that had cute pictures of kittens on the front page of its website one weekday morning.  It was a comic strip, what kind of sense does that make. Maybe the LA Times has some problems with other things other than just Prop 8 passing.

I see today they have yet another story on THE BLACK MENACE OF HOMOPHOBIA in the LA Times. The people at the Times are such unbelievable assholes.

(In my morning email this is what I’m greeted with via my LA Times email subscription of top stories and conspicuously absent is Jasmyne Cannick’s piece on Prop 8, again with the “I’m not touching you racism” of the LA TIMES. Message for the LA Times your piece by JC does not excuse you from this mess you stated, because gay people didn’t start this. YOU DID!!! Gay people aren’t racist the LA Times newspaper is racist.)

And in the “Top of the LA Times” story the LA Times does the kind of research they are known for by asking the opinion of an African-American Gay and Lesbian organization (Barbara Jordan/ Baynard Rustin Coalition) that is not even truly African-American. The LA Times knows exactly where to find liberal black people and gay black people to do a hard news story, but they make a point to not talk to us (or will only talk to one of us and make it clear that we are an exception, like Obama is an exception) because it doesn’t fit with their LIES!!! It’s not a lie that many invidual black people voted for Prop 8, but it’s a lie to imply that we are the only ones that voted for it and are the main reason for it and to use us as a symbol of evil.

The sad thing about all of this is that owing to this I’m seriously considering getting out LA. It’s too racist out here. I was never ever called a nigger before 2005, after that well, I can give you lots of stories and I’m a woman. I don’t know what happened to LA. And you know what you’re going to be left with? Lots of black people who aren’t even willing to talk to you or dialogue with you. They are going to be firmly in the arms of the right. Maybe this is part of Sam Zell’s plan. Sam Zell the owner of the LA Times who spent over $40,000 on the McCain Campaign.

Now that Obama is president I think the right is going to really be looking at the African-American god-fearing, working class population as ripe for picking and thanks to the LA Times, they are probably going to move right in.

We have a biracial president, if that could happen, just about anything could happen.

Here’s a link to Sparky Monster. She is a biracial, bisexual living on the East Coast and she did some real research on this topic and I think it deserves a click: Issues on Prop 8.

Also take a look at Shanikka’s Daily Kos Journal: Issues on Prop 8.

Both of these sisters break it down pretty well.

I want to restate I firmly support gay marriage. I do believe in gay civil rights. Please everyone stop playing the Oppression Olympics. Everyone’s struggle is real.

For the people voted for this stupid law, whether you are black, white, Asian, Latino, orange or a mixture of any of those groups, you need to educate yourself. And you know the whole god thing is bullshit? I’m just saying. If you believe in god and the afterlife kill yourself and prove me wrong. Maybe you should stop worrying about the imaginary people who are going to judge you in the afterlife and start worrying about who is going to judge you right now in reality.                                                                                 

Maybe that is a bit harsh, but religion is a choice. You choose to be part of a wacky religion that takes away other people’s rights I’m going to make fun of you, because it’s a choice. You can leave the game of freaky religion at any time. Being black or Latino or gay or a woman is not a choice.

by Browne Molyneux

21 thoughts on “The LA Times’ Institutional Racism. Black peoples public lynching courtesy of the LA Times.”

  1. Racism is wrong, even from another minority.

    I am completely aghast at all of the blame being thrown on black voters because of one exit poll with a very small sample size.

    One exit poll of 224 voters (possibly even from one precinct.) Do you think this is a good enough sample size to extrapolate to all the black voters in the state? I sure don’t. Pre-election polls put black voters at less than 50% in favor of Prop 8.

    Shame on people (and especially the LA Times) for playing this issue up at all.

    I loved your article Browne, and I hope that more people read it. Personally, I’ll be spreading it out among my friends and mentioning it on my blog (which doesn’t get great readership, but it gets some.)

  2. Browne,

    I am deeply disturbed by the racist comments in mainstream blogs and comments at the LA Times as well. I’ve pointed out in several that African Americans make up just 6.7% of the total STATE vote, and that’s counting those who haven’t even registered to vote. It clearly was a small percentage of the total votes cast and wasn’t significant enough to make a difference either way.

    Over at LAist a Mormon was doing her best to try and defend the LDS church in that the church itself couldn’t donate to Yes campaign as it would lose it’s tax-exempt status and it was individual members that donated to the campaign overwhelmingly after heeding the call of the church elders to volunteer and vote for the Yes campaign.

    In the midst of all this was very committed and bigoted commenters that were clearly hating on the gays to begin with, and then attempting to tie Latinos and Blacks to the Yes vote, a divide and conquer if you will. When hate laws are voted on, the haters come out of the woodwork. When it passes, they feel redeemed for their racism/homophobia, and waste no time stoking the anger on everyone but themselves. To everyone’s credit most saw through the deception in most every blog I read, and other than presumably White people who voted for the amendment attempting to inflame racism, nobody (that I saw) reacted towards Latinos or Blacks for the outcome.

    Now, I haven’t been to any of the marches, I probably should, but if someone next to me had called someone a “Nigger” he/she would get punched in the throat. If that instance had happened (it still sounds like a rumor at this point) I wonder how anyone could’ve let that person continue to breathe, much less march.

    This is a Civil Rights issue and probably one of the last major one’s we’ll see within our lifetimes, I hope. Until everyone has the rights that I enjoy as a married straight white male the fight isn’t over.

    You may not think much of “Liberals” but it’s a label I’m proud to wear, and until the day that propositions designed to limit ANYONE’S rights are illegal and the State Constitution protects and cherishes everyone’s rights, we will do whatever we can ensure that it happens. It appears to be time to amend the Constitution to protect it from anti- Civil Rights Propositions.

    I will say probably the people with the most right to be disappointed by the African American vote on Prop 8 are likely to be Black gays, from their neighbors, in their own communities. Then again the popular sentiment concerning homosexuality is that it’s a choice has a lot to do with everyone’s vote for the Proposition. Until people can be convinced that gays are simply born that way, much as they are white, brown or black, it may be very difficult win support from any minority group.

  3. *Edit*
    “I’ve pointed out in several that African Americans make up just 6.7% of the total STATE vote, and that’s counting those who haven’t even registered to vote.”

    I meant to say state population, not state vote. I stand self-corrected.

  4. Brown-

    Right on. Total race baiting on the press. It’s distracting, destructive and divisive.

    Plus the gays vs. blacks vs. Latinos is just tiresome. The conversation needs to go back to and focus on rights.

    Ultimately, its about church and state separation. There are reasons why its the law: no-one is magical. Any group unsupervised or regulated does not necessarily act on its own accord in the best interest of others; this includes churches, white folk, people of color and gays.

    Salty-

    There is a clause in the California constitution that says something to the effect that to amend fundamental civil rights in the Constitution it has to pass by 2/3 popular vote. That is the basis of one of the lawsuits against the state of California that was filed on Nov 5. Even that is pretty shitty, as it still leaves civil rights to a popular vote, albeit a much steeper climb to do something bigoted.

    At this point, the ball is in going back to the supreme court. Lets hope they interpret marriage as a “fundamental” right- if so – the proposition is not valid. but in the meantime, it’s good to show them that we’re pissed off.

    All-

    There is a Lincoln Heights rally on Sunday.

    “East Los Angeles Rally Sunday!!! 1pm Lincoln Park

    PROTEST in the PARK: EQUALITY not H8TE
    Sponsored by the Latino/a LGBT Coalition
    latino.lgbt. coalition@ gmail.com

    This Sun Nov 9th – 1 pm
    East LA : Lincoln Park
    3501 Valley Blvd.
    Los Angeles, CA 90031

    A peaceful rally of the people. We rally then we march.
    In peace and with dignity…
    Everyone’s voice is needed. Everyone’s help is needed to spread the word…”

  5. for a moment, let’s grant the cnn polling process the benefit of the doubt and assume the black voters that participated in their exit poll were a truly random sampling of black voters. they reported 10% of their participants were black, so i’m assuming 224 black participants. also, i’m assuming the overall percentage of black voters is 10% since i can’t seem to find actual numbers on turnout anywhere. if anyone else can, please pass it along. here is what statistical theory tells us.

    the confidence interval of the exit poll is 7.9% (see http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm#one for a calculator) given a confidence level of 99%. for a 95% confidence level, the confidence interval is 6%. what does that mean? there is a 99% chance the overall black vote was between 62.1% and 77.9%. also, there is a 95% chance it was between 64% and 76%.

    again, the calculator hinges on the cnn sample being random and all the other assumptions already mentioned above.

    if anyone wants me to crunch other numbers, i’d be happy to. i enjoy this stuff more than i’d normally care to admit in public.

  7. While most blogs people are very good at not engaging people. Not challenging people is to me an agreement and too often mainstreams blogs do not challenge opinions.

    Sometimes I think it’s better to get involved in a flamewar than to let ignorance go unchecked. People think they can say just about anything now with no consequences. This is why I hate the internet at times.

    And if a commenter is good at being sneaky and “polite” they can say all kinds of things and completely get away with it and that’s not ok.

    The progressive blogosphere needs to be a bit more proactive.

    We need to talk about issues of race, gender, sexual orientation before an issue like this happens. I’m trying to prevent things like this from happening, this is why to many people’s annoyance I bring up race and gender all of the time.

    I think we at the LA Eastside are very good at that. I would go so far to say as a group general blog about LA we’re the best at it.

    @ Salty. I don’t have a problem with true progressives. I have a problem with people who say they are progressive, but are really moderate. Too many middle of the road wishy washy people have co-opted the terms progressive and liberal. Democrat does not always equal progressive or liberal and I think on many levels in this current election as well as the passage of Prop 187 and 209 that while California is in large part a more Democrat leaning state it’s not necessarily the most progressive state.

    “It appears to be time to amend the Constitution to protect it from anti- Civil Rights Propositions,” Salty. I agree with this, hopefully people will join together it put this forward.

  8. Browne, this is a good and thoughtful post. I agree with you that the LA Times has taken this in the wrong direction. It’s odd, because the protests don’t even address the “issue” that the LA Times is harping on, rather they are taking on the Mormon Church (and civil rights in the abstract).

    In any case, the majorities who voted for Prop 8 were scared by the rhetoric (most of it lies and falsehoods) about churches losing their tax exempt status, being forced to teach gay marriage in schools, and being forced to conduct same sex marriage ceremonies.

    The No on 8 campaign was lame in the face of this bullshit. They played nice, and lost because of it.

    This race thing will blow over. The LA Times is scrambling to remain relevant. People are getting less and less of their information from the newspapers and some of them are acting silly to get attention.

    To me the real story here is the relationship of gay blacks to the larger African American community, but the LA Times can’t possibly go there, they simply do not know how.

  9. Thank you Cristin and Bert. I thought long and hard about this post. I see too many times how our beliefs are often shaped by the media, whether it be print editorial like the LA Times, blogs, television or movies. I think it’s very important to critique the media. When we try to be objective with slanted facts often we end up being subjective.

    Just mindlessly posting other people’s opinions, thoughts, and “facts” or just linking them with no commentary is not objective it’s ignorance.

    Being critical is not being negative, but it’s a very LA idea that to be critical in the unpopular is to be negative.

    I have to say while I admire Jasmyne Cannick’s blog and her stance. I was a bit disappointed in her LA Times op-ed piece. It was more of a reactionary piece and while I understand, I just wish she would have written the real story. And I think Bert that is a real story how black gays are treated in the black community. This gay white guy against the lesbian black woman thing…it seemed too insular and sadly it’s going to let religious right black people (and any other people) who voted yes on 8 feel justified, because they can say, “Well you gay people aren’t godlike AND they are racist. Even one of your own said so.”

    But of course it’s the LA Times and they weren’t going to publish anything that was thoughtful in a real way.

    I don’t know. In general I’m getting to the point that I would rather the LA Times not know I existed. Their stories more often do more harm than good.

    Those of you who appreciate my opinion and want to stop the hate please link this post. It’s not going to be linked on any more major blogs, because of course I said disparaging remarks about Kevin Roderick the blog godfather and the LA Times and the mainstream blogosphere is very insular and into blocking people who don’t toe the line with group think.

    If you are upset with the coverage, link my post and talk about it on your own blogs. We can’t let the LA Times and blogs that are funded by marketing dollars that have a vested interest in keeping all of us seperated win.

  10. It’s the same politics of divisiveness that manifests itself over and over again. Those in power don’t want any group besides themselves to feel empowered, so they find a way to tear them down. I know it’s not a solution to this current problem and I wish I could be more positive, but this is precisely the reason why I have no faith or interest in electoral politics or the current system as it exists today. There is way too much entrenched bullshit.
    By the way Browne, don’t leave Los Angeles – we need you here! 🙂

  11. @Bert Green: A couple of months ago, the Times did a Column One piece about gay blacks trying to organize at a historically black college–Morehouse, I believe.

  12. Gustavo,

    One story doesn’t justify what the LA Times has done. Morehouse is in Georgia. What about some stories about black gays in LA and what they do? To me that Morehouse story is akin to people giving money to Africa, but letting poor people right here in South Central starve.

    And it’s not just with this issue, but their seemingly vested issue in flaming the black vs brown thing. Their non equal representation of Latinos in comparison to the population in just random man/woman on the street stories.

    And the black vs gay thing. How it’s being covered is ridiculous.

    The LA Times to me, it seems racist and homophobic and classist and anti-immigrant. It is a disgrace that in a city as diverse as LA that’s what we have as a paper. I want to like the LA Times, but it’s so much crap in there.

    Their stupid racist and sexist blogs.

    The Homicide Report that is totally pointless with now that Jill is gone.

    With the amount of gay people in LA there should be a story in there daily about gay people, not just when it suits someone’s messed up political agenda.

    And the writers don’t know LA. They are all from somewhere else and only get their stories from things that they find online. And from their friends that helped them move. They don’t have any beat reporters that find stuff anymore.

    80% of the local people that they quote I have met, so either I have a wide range of associates or the LA Times circle of contacts is very small. If you have a staff job at the LA Times you’d think you would write a story with a bit more effort than pulling up your email list and asking your friend, “do you know any gay people.”

    At the rallies according to Bert the focus in the Mormons. I see very little of that on the LA Times, one story in comparison to the five or six with posts on the black angle. Most gay people aren’t thinking on that level and are being very open-minded about this whole matter, but are any of them quoted are asked anything heck no, because that doesn’t go with Zell’s divide and conquer objective.

    And lots of their stories it looked like people just asked their friend. And when your circle of friends come from the same class and practically the same race your stories become pretty nondiverse and when you are a paper of record that means you are participating in institutional discrimination, because you are purposely excluding people and their views because you don’t care. I know they know. I’ve written them.

    I mean the LA Times quoted a non-black, black gay organization to give a feeling about black gay people. Why?

    I’m not gay and I would know where to go. I would probably start out by not thinking that a “black” organization based in West Hollywood is a black organization. I would then leave my house and go south of the ten freeway. And I’d probably stay there more than five minutes, maybe I would stay there an hour and go back the next day and ask more than the one person that would give me the quote I want to finish the story I already wrote with my preconceived biases a question. Why not ask Carl Bean. He is an openly gay black man who started a church Unity Church that was open to all people black, gay, etc…I mean why can’t they even do more than google to get some info on black people and gay people and any people for that matter.

    They don’t represent anyone fairly but American born, straight, college educated, middle class, westsiders (silver lake included), that’s it. That is the only group of people that gets a fair representation from the LA Times and that is not fair. If it’s painting itself as a national paper.

    If it wants to rename it the moderate-right, yuppie paper and what yuppies think of the rest of y’all then ok then I could be more understanding, but right now I’m not getting it.

    Browne

  13. Gustavo,
    “A couple of months ago, the Times did a Column One piece about gay blacks trying to organize at a historically black college–Morehouse, I believe.”

    Perhaps you can explain why you made this statement.

    Might one infer that that this solitary article means the L.A. Times meant to mitigate the coming racialism that has recently bloomed like a bloody daffodil across its cretinous waste of paper, or that the L.A. Times meant only to state, “See? We care about black people” or, well. . . ?

    In any case, please clarify. We know you are a published newspaperman; surely such a request is not out of line. (Just pretend I am a junior editor.)

  14. I haven’t really had time to read too many other blogs after the election but finally got around to it this morning. I had no idea how much vitriol and blaming was going on!
    http://la.curbed.com/archives/2008/11/week_in_review_11.php#reader_comments
    I often read Curbed LA where the commentors are notorious for their prejudiced opinions. Many of the comments are about how “ghetto” and unsafe certain neighborhoods are (Eastside, West Adams) while pining for the day when POC will move out of said neighborhoods so they can begin to create their tasteful neighborhoods of restored Craftsmans and latte shops. I mean, they use the term “gentrification” like it’s a good thing. Quite often, folks there like to make derogatory comments against Mexicans, immigrants and any other people who sully up their designer worlds. They have chosen their class over any other affiliation and now are shocked when solidarity doesn’t come when they expect it.

    I was sadly not surprised then, to read all the hateful speech on that site (way worse than what’s on LAist) directed against Blacks (some still trying to find a way to disparage Latinos too.) It’s almost so ridiculous that it’s hard to believe it’s true. I would think most informed, educated people would be smart enough not to propagate the lame statistics about “70 percent of Blacks voted for Prop 8” bullshit but there it is again on Metroblogging LA. Really, WTF?

  15. I stopped reading curbed la a long time ago, too many really scary trolls. It’s like an echo chamber in there. There is also a big discussion at angelenic:

    http://www.angelenic.com/6135/proposition-8-protests-gain-steam-two-downtown-area-events-this-weekend

    I have been involved in that one (as has Browne), and it has its share of haters, but they are mostly taken to task. I am also happy to see angelenic shedding their boosterist leanings. All it takes is for the blog owners to get politicized by having their rights stripped away (Rich, the blog master got married a few days before election day).

  16. browne, the lack of rigor in the blog posts on numbers you pointed to are actually what led me to do my analysis. most of the numbers are about population demographics, which aren’t directly pertinent to election results. we have an actual exit poll and actual results. there is no need to speculate about who voted based on population numbers. once we eliminate discussion about general population, we are left with myths 1 and 6 from the maat’s feather post.

    let me start with myth 6. i completely agree with maat’s feather on this. it’s highly unlikely black voters had the turnout or voting behavior to swing prop 8. i will simply point out that the confidence intervals i reported are good for any black voter turnout between 500,000 and 1,500,000. you can play with the sample size calculator to verity this.

    the reasoning on myth 1 is that precincts were selected at random. maat’s feather goes on to state how this reflects the black vote very poorly based on the distribution of black people by county. the problem is precincts are not counties. there are over 25000 precincts in the state, over 400 per county on average. after you do some arithmetic, you get that cnn polled about 22 precincts*. statistically and methodologically, this is pretty good. while it’d be nice for cnn to tell us exactly which precincts they used, if the selection was random, i would trust the exit poll.

    enough about the statistical analysis of the cnn exit poll. let me answer the question of how i feel about the la times being racist. it sucks. i hate it. i wish journalism had more integrity.

    a different question is of more importance to me. is the exit-poll right? sometimes the reflection of people we hold dear is ugly; and the sooner we admit that it’s ugly, the sooner we can try to fix it. i have yet to find any legitimate holes in how the results were compiled or their accuracy.

    in the vein of rooting out ugly, of yet more importance than exit poll accuracy is what do the gay and black communities need to do to reconcile their differences? i’d much rather hear a conversation around that question.

    * — 10mil voters/25000 precincts = 400 voters/precinct. about every fourth was exit-polled, so about 100 exit-poll participants per precinct. a total of 2240 participants / 100 participants per precinct is about 22 precincts.

  17. Thanks for the contributions and for the link, Bert. I have to say though, the discussion at Angelenic is really creepy (not a statement on the blog, just the comments). There’s a lot of violent talk/fantasies in the comments that was a bit difficult to stomach. I prefer the more gender balanced discussions here, less talk of bashing and burning people.

  18. Human,

    I think in general we need to ask what will the human community do to reconcile their differences. I think this gay community, black community thing in general are both communities that on one hand do exist, but on the other hand are manifested by the media in order to sell propaganda and hate. All groups based on biology are simply marketing tools to force people into a monolithic groupthink so that corporate American can easily sell to, denigrate, and exploit.

    If everyone was an individual and that individuality was encouraged then it would be harder to make a commercial.

    Neither group is monolithic.

    My parents were pretty liberal, no, they were totally on the left batshit crazy BUT there was one good thing about my parents I didn’t realize there were “gay” people or “black” people or any kind of people, just human people, not until I moved to LA. Seriously it took me awhile to realize that the gay people that people were referring to on TV and in the teenage slang at the malls were the same people who were friends of my mother and father. I didn’t see any different in same sex or opposite sex relationships. I didn’t realize it was a term for it. And for some reason the term for it (even the non slang term, it was something in the way people described it, I guess similar to how some people whisper “black people”) in LA seemed to be negative, I don’t know why, but since my experience with gay people had never been negative I had no clue that this group that had this negative connotation were the same group of people that I knew.

    I laugh at the fact now that when I was a kid my mom had a friend that had a same sex partner, they used to kiss all of the time, they were very into each other. It took me years to realize that was supposed to be different (in other people’s minds) than people of the opposite sex.

    Now if people truly want people to get along they should probably start by doing what I’m doing, going to the root of the problem. Propaganda by corporate media that forces a wedge between people and distracts people from the true problem which is capitalism.

    Capitalism is what drives hate.

    Exploiting people is so much easier when they are fighting.

    This hate for people who are gay, bisexual, black, asian, transgendered, white, biracial, poor, rich, homeless…there is a vested interest in keeping us distracted from the very rich who control everything and to have us fight for crumbs.

    We have this idea that we can’t fight for everything at the same time. We think that a “win” for one group is a “loss” for another group and that is the problem. We let the rules of the game of capitalism creep into social justice issues.

    So what are we going to do about that problem Human?

    Of course that is a rhetorical question, but it starts with a discussion of the forces that control us.

    A conversation that would just include black straight religious people and just gay white people isn’t going to do anything in the larger scale of things. Even if you got those groups together, well that’s two groups. Shouldn’t we work on building coalitions between everyone and then breaking down lines completely? I mean really, isn’t this the bases of our problem. People are divided into groups and those groups think that they don’t need to talk to other groups and they don’t need to build coalitions or that another group is competition. We need to stop this insanity and all of us need to be one group. One human group.

    We need to start having conversations that doesn’t compartmentalize people and causes.

    We need to have the Living Being Civil Rights Movement. Gay, straight, poor, working class, middle class, women, men, transgendered, bisexual, racial minorities, white, undocumented immigrants, the trees, the forest, the animal…we need to treat every living being with respect from the smallest blade of grass to the oldest poorest person.

    Civil Rights needs to be all under the same banner. Gay rights, racial minority rights, undocumented immigrant rights and woman rights need to all be included on one single bill. Everyone gets their rights or no one gets their rights, so either all of the oppressed people will have to join together or we all lose. I’m willing to give that a shot Human, but I don’t know about the rest of the humans out there.

    I have a little bit of faith, but not much.

    Browne

  19. i can dig it, browne. one people. i’m with you.

    i guess all i’m tryin to say is i’ve known for a long time that conversations about gay rights with the elderly, less educated and lower income folks (amongst others) need to happen. my eyes must not have been open, but i thought the conversation had been going on with the black community already for some time. this was by far the strongest indication i’ve seen to the contrary. and for that reason, the exit poll was particularly jarring. the attention to that poll has clearly spiraled out of control, but i was happy for about half a second that someone other than me noticed it.

  20. Human,

    Why would you think this conversation had been going on in any community outside of the already converted?

    Are you actively involved in the feminist movement and talking to people about feminist issues? How about black issues or Asian issues? How about transgendered issues? Do you actively talk to the community you are involved in on those issues?

    Most people aren’t involved in conversations outside of their immediate demographic. And I’m not pointing fingers and saying people are bad. I’m saying this is something we need to change. The corporate machine did a very good job at divide and conquering us after the 1960s. I think progressive and the little groups that make up progressive are farther apart than they have ever been.

    People actively try to discredit and quiet people who want to mix issues.

    To me in general I notice with most movements and this is something that in general really frustrates me. And the reason in general I’m just independent. I support everyone.

    The movements are segregated. Feminism a movement that I support refuses to acknowledge the need to include all demographics of women: women of color, poor women, working class women, homeless women, lesbian women, transgendered women….

    The movement for rights of undocumented immigrants have tried to involve other groups, but again this group has not been very effective in reaching out to working class community of all ethnicity a group of people who would really benefit from getting rid of legalized slavery. Legalized slavery brings down the standard of living of everyone, not just undocumented immigrants and the answer to this is not going to be stopping immigration the answer to this is making sure that everyone is treated the same. That’s a message that for some reason people seem to want to prevent from getting out there. It almost seems that corporate forces want these two groups to think that there is this competition and a victory for one group is a loss for another and that any victory based in oppressing people is a good thing. That’s always a negative in the longterm.

    And with gay civil rights, there needs to be a coalition with groups of people.

    Why are all of these movements segregated? Why aren’t they all the same movement.

    And you know people like to point their finger at the No on 8 campaign. A campaign I’m assuming was run by mainly gay people, but you know what? Why do gay people have to fight this by themselves? This is a human right’s fight. Aren’t we all humans? Why weren’t other civil rights type organization involved in this BEFORE this didn’t pass. It’s not fair to get mad at No on 8 when all of the civil rights organization nowadays have been doing this paradigm of preaching to the converted and not building coalitions.

    I remember when I went to the carwash protest at an organization and I got a real cold response from the Union folks that came down to Washington DC, because I didn’t match the demographic of who they were trying to go after and how dare I invite myself to that party. Now the carwash people who worked were totally happy to see a black woman there supporting them, but the people in charge, well they seemed a bit confused.

    What’s the confusion for? Rights don’t get passed just by the work of the people who are oppressed or by college students.

    I think the feminist movement would be a good compliment to the fight for same sex marriage since marriage between a man and a woman in the traditional sense was just a legal way for a man to own a woman and up until the 1970s in America it still was like that. Women couldn’t even buy a house or a car without having a piece of paper saying that a man owned her (she was married).

    After same sex marriage is approved. I would like to get rid of state involvement in marriage completely.

    The state should spend the money it wastes regulating marriage and use that to help homeless people or provide jobs for young people….

    Browne

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