Separate but Equal Treatment via Rail Lines in L.A.
If you look at this photo you wonder what is this? And how did anyone think this was safe?
Why is the safety method on the Eastside going to be of the “pull yourselves up by the bootstraps” variety via cameras to blame personal drivers and old men in yellow vests reminding people to “be safe,” while the City of Los Angeles west of LaCienega get the “silver spoon” variety of safety with expensive barriers and elevated stations?
Why will there will be no testing out Darwinism theory of survival of the fittest on the Westside?
Only the neighborhoods with higher concentrations of poor people and brown and black people are tested with sink and swim theories.
The rail dips just one mile into the magic dividing line of LaCienega and the people on that side of LA who don’t walk or even use public transit as extensively as people on the Eastside get all of our tax dollars spent protecting them from being hit by a train that most of them won’t even take or even be near outside of driving by its protected barrier.
(This is an excerpt of a very long post entitled “Cameras Aren’t Going to Make Fewer People Die.”)
by Browne Molyneux
LikeRelated posts:
Comments(124)
I didn’t even know the westide had a rail train, where is the rail train station in Westwood?
Hector….you can’t find that information out unless you are a Westwoodian. It’s top secret. I bet no one on the east side knows.
Is this seriously an argument? Racist because MTA has placed alternative transit in an minority-majority region? And, are you implying that people east of Downtown are more likely to not follow traffic signs and see a train than those west of downtown?
i\’ll reveal the secret:
http://www.buildexpo.org
and the other secret site:
http://www.metro.net/projects_studies/exposition/default.htm
I grew up in San Francisco, where non-grade-separated streetcars ran through what were then almost entirely white neighborhoods. People didn’t walk or drive into streetcars.
For Metro, grade separation is entirely a function of TRAFFIC volume and congestion on cross-streets. It has nothing to do with pedestrian safety.
Eastsider,
Although I agree with your points, where were you at the time Metro had the community meetings?
The Eastside Gold Line has a COMPLETELY grade seperated subway section. The westside doesn\’t even have a subway at all right now.
The fact of the matter is that it is very expensive to grade separate. Metro has a grade separation policy that stipulates an intersection will be grade separated if a certain number of vehicles per hour cross an intersection. The westside will have more intersections grade separated because of the greater population density and number of vehicles on the road. The East L.A. Gold Line was put in a tunnel for almost two miles in the densest portion and returns to grade where it’s a less dense.
I don’t entirely disagree with you however. I think some neighborhoods in South Los Angeles were short changed along the Expo line. From personal observation Crenshaw and Western at Exposition are very congested streets and the population density in these areas are very high.
I think it would be good if you expanded this article out a little more by doing some additional research. A lot of people are going to have the same observation that you had as the Expo Line is built. You can start by looking at the Enviromental Impact reports which are available for free at http://www.metro.net and http://www.buildexpo.org Citizen transit advocates like SOCATA and the Transit Coalition are good information resources as well.
It is good to advocate for better solutions for your community. Rail offers greater capacity, faster travel times and is more environmentally friendly. The trick is how do you make sure it gets built in a manner that is responsive to and enhanced by the community?
Start by being informed and finding out when community meetings occur. The East Side Gold Line was not built in a vacuum. Dozens of community meetings occurred before and during the construction in which citizens had the opportunity to provide their input. Right now they are in the early stages of looking to extend the Gold LIne to Whittier. On the other end they are looking to connect the Blue and Expo Lines with the Gold Line. Do you want to have a say in that process? How about the 710 freeway connector? These community meetings are happening RIGHT NOW with metro and CalTrans and it’s your opportunity to affect how these things get built by showing up. Don’t just point and say “racism” Do something.
With respect,
Jason Saunders
Good god this Browne person sounds like a fucking broken record about the Gold Line extension. If you are that stupid to ignore flashing train signs and stops, then perhaps the gene pool is better without you. Every other city on this planet has a similar setup and it has nothing to do with racism. Stop playing the victim card!
all the regulars here are constant victims.
So the Eastside gets an at-grade train and white ass Santa Monica has now opted to have the Expo run at-grade INSTEAD OF ELEVATED through pretty much the entirety of their city. Those white folks are always copying us….first it was Elvis, now this!
Why all the complaining?!? There are hispanic, black, white, asian people all over this city were the train runs underground e.g. macarthur park, koreatown, east hollywood, hollywood etc…stop with this notion of an at-grade rail being tested on poor minorities. There are at-grade trains all over the world e.g. Portland, SF, Amsterdam etc. that work efficiently and have nothing to do with race. Have you ever been to Amsterdam? The streets are jammed with people and bicycles and the trains just cruise right by, 2 inches from your face. How about the at-grade rail through South Pasadena? I guess that pretty messed up too?..Oh how those rich white people got screwed. And what about the Orange line? By your argument I guess all those “concentrations of poor people and brown and black people” from Studio City to Warner Center got screwed too. And if you have did your research you would have learned that the Westside is getting at-grade rail in to Santa Monica. So…next time learn a little before you start bitching and pulling the race card.
Sheesh, let’s just get some public transportation in this town and be happy that they are at least creating some alternatives for this city.
sincerely,
Camilo
K-Towner for Life
I can’t load the Bus Bench for some reason, Browne. But from the excerpt I’ve read here, I disagree almost entirely with your post.
With some acclimation, people on the Eastside will get used to the train. Previous comments say what I wanted to say.
Pointing out the obvious = yer a victim. Whatever happened to critical thinking?
Camilo, you beat me to my point. I was going to mention Amsterdam as well. If any of these pro grade-seperation crybabies could see the trams rumbling down Leidsestraat (essentially a pedestrian shopping lane) they’d probably faint.
Like Jeff J, I too also lived in SF and I can tell you, this brown person found it fairly easy to avoid death by light rail. Survival of the fittest? Hardly. Just use of common sense.
People need to calm down and see how this pans out first before crying foul on the basis of public safety or unprobable planning conspiracies. The Gold Line is going to be good for the city and even better for Eastside.
This is the same arguement that’s being thrown around the Westside, the blacks don’t know how to cross the street so they need the train grade-seperated. HELLO!? There’s a freakin high school in front of one of the stops on the Gold Line! If you can’t see or hear the train, then you need help, unless you do need the help!
Uh, we just did critical thinking with the previous comments. We came up with this: white folks have at-grade trains now too because they can\’t ever come up with anything themselves. They are hiding trains from all of those \”Mexicans\” in Mac Arthur Park. And it aint smart to shadow box with a moving train.
There are at-grade trains running all over the world. Ms. Browne-Goodmon is looking more and more like an over educated fool to had finally realized that a train was indeed opening in East LA and begin criticizing it…..when? Well on the precipice of it going into revenue service. I mean when did this thing begin being built? Like 2005 or something. (And if you did indeed write an article about this issue prior please direct me to it, I\’d love to read it.)
And yes there is a such thing as environmental racism and injustice. But I\’d expect a lettered girl like herself and her tag cronie Damien to be trying to shut down the 10, 110 and 105 which completely divides our communities, spews pollution upon us and noise 24 hours a day and has been linked to causing certain forms of cancer and asthma in ourselves and our children. But of course krazy talk like shutting down freeways won\’t even make you popular with the po\’folks……so you go around bitching about an electrically powered choo choo train that has bells, whistles and flashing lights. How convenient!
It’s amazing how racist some of you are.
First off if one group of people get one kind of treatment and another group of people get a different kind of treatment and the only thing that seems similar in the group that always get preferential treatment is the ethnic group that’s called racism, if the term racism hurts you too much then you can call it classism. I think we can safely say that Metro has classism issues.
Metro did get sued for being racist and had to change some things, that was in 1996 not 1956
http://www.cityprojectca.org/blog/archives/73
Metro does have the most dangerous rail in the USA, the Blue Line.
I think METRO possibly has some issues owing to who mainly rides the rail, but this is an across the board LA thing.
I think the Gold Line around Indiana is unsafe and apparently Metro agrees with me which is why they are installing cameras and not opening up the Gold Line until those cameras are installed.
No Metro isn’t going to come right out and say, “Yeah we built this really fucked up train, so to cover our tracks and save money we’ll throw some cameras up instead of making it safe.” It’s not that ground breaking what I said it’s called deductive logic, you know where dictionary.com is right?
And I’m sorry does the Eastside and East Los Angeles look like freaking Amsterdam or Portland? No it doesn’t I think it looks more like Lower Eastside in New York and so would you put an at grade train with no barriers are protection in the LES, no you wouldn’t that would be stupid.
And why does the Eastside have to get acclimated to the train? What the hell why doesn’t the Westside or South Pas or Pasadena have to get acclimated, why do working class communities always have to adjust, why can’t working class communities get the same treatment as middle and upper middle class communities, why the hell don’t working class people demand to be treated with respect. The way the MGLEE was built was disrespectful.
All you have to do is look at the difference between the line that goes at grade in South Pasadena and does a curve and look at the line at Indiana. You don’t have to listen to me. You don’t have to listen to anyone go see for yourselves. Go around Mission and go around Indiana and you tell me if that looks fair to you?
Hey I’m just writing this to inform people what is up and so I can have the misfortune of saying I told you so.
If you want the facts behind what I say go to the original post or maybe later tonight I will have more to say.
Browne
Browne, You are so right, I think I’m the first person to have an accident near those tracks and it hasn’t even opened yet!!! The whole thing is a disaster waiting to happen, and I can only sadfully imagine how many people will be seriously hurt here or worse.You know it was initially proposed by Supervisor Molina that it be fully underground, but thanks to the westside supervisors that’s not the case now.
Oh c’mon Browne I don’t know why you bother. The best thing to happen to the Eastside (real, fast, cheap, good transportation) is just another way for you to complain about how you’re being kept down.
Your posts always have such a whiney, chip-on-my-shoulder attitude.
I love this blog -read and post regularly – but i skip right over most of your posts because of it.
Why don’t you try pointing out something you like about the eastside? If you hate living here so much feel free to leave. How about you let those of us who live here and appreciate progress comment?
I’d be willing to bet I’ve never seen you at a VELA event, or any of the East LA cityhood meetings. Or the Metro meetings, or anything else that could actually do good.
Anyway, the other posters have sufficiently debunked your posting so I have nothing more to add.
I wish that Chavo, random hero and the rest would stop letting you post on LAeastside.
A few months ago I tried to get a speed bump on my street (around the corner from this metro station)—because we get side swiped and hit and run all the time by speeding cars–plus little kids walk up my street to elementary school. So I get a letter from the street maintenance department’s manager saying that “yes” it is true that people are driving 30mph+ on my residential street(!) AND even though we should have a speed bump, sign or something—they have no money to do anything. Then the salt on the wound was that the letter also added that I should call the Hollenbeck Police department to start a Neighborhood watch. So, I guess it is my responsibility (and my neighbors) to stand in the middle of my street and stop the cars all day long from going too fast. Seriously, would they write that shit to someone with a similar problem in Beverly Hills?
Browne – As usual you cry racism. Trams and trolleys opperate all over the world and in many other cities in the US just fine. I’d like to give Angelenos more credit than assuming they cannot cross the street safely. I don’t buy the transit racism claims because the low income communities are getting rail transit first! They got the blue line, they got the Subways, the gold line phase one goes thru low income areas on its way to ritzy Pasadena and the East LA extention is through a low income area. WTF?!? Give us a break and put the race card away. It’s tired.
Well, I think Browne’s post should be titled “Separate but Un-equal”. And for anyone to say that the Eastside citizens should just shut up, pay more attention, and feel fortunate to even have some transit is racist and classist on it’s face.
That’s like saying the schools on the Eastside don’t necessarily merit the same grade of teachers, facilities, and books as exist in other parts of town but the people of the Eastside should consider themselves lucky and fortunate to even have schools.
What kind of bullshit is that!
If Rapid transit is safe and clean on the Westside then there is no other reason except racism that the transit system on the Eastside shouldn’t have the same safeguards and service quality.
Fuck that attitude! Anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive or blatantly racist.
“And for anyone to say that the Eastside citizens should just shut up, pay more attention, and feel fortunate to even have some transit is racist and classist on it’s face.
That’s like saying the schools on the Eastside don’t necessarily merit the same grade of teachers, facilities, and books as exist in other parts of town but the people of the Eastside should consider themselves lucky and fortunate to even have schools.”
Um, no it is not. But then again it is pointless to argue with people who enjoy constantly playing victim and crying racism, classism, or whatever -ism turns them on
I like how people make the argument that at grade level would never fly in the westside, namely cause there is no rail in the westside and most of the proposed projects go through working class in low income areas, with the exception of a few. You can take that either way u want. ALso, i dont understand why people think the gold standard for who things should be is the westside, have u people spent time in the westside,it really not that great. I think the eastside has better public transit. I find it hard to believe that there is racism on metro’s part in building the rail especially when u consider that just a mile away the rail goes underground for a two mile stretch of Boyle Heights, unless u want to are that that section of BH is wealthier or whiter. Lets give the people on the Eastside the credit the deserve and assume they will know when to cross a rail and when not to.
Also i image the camera may also be there as photo enforcement since that portion in that portion of 3rd street u cant make a left turn.
I guess these are the type of “quality” comments we get when LA Curbed links to us. It’s the reason why I and a lot of other folks I know quit reading that website.
Some of you may disagree with Browne’s post and that’s fine but we could have done without the vitriolic, mean-spirited ways of expressing that disagreement. Are the personal attacks necessary?
And this kinda of comment is just plain stupid: “all the regulars here are constant victims.” To be critical, to ask questions is NOT being a victim. It’s about empowering oneself and one’s community.
Thanks for the post Browne, please keep us updated! By the way, I’m working on a post on how traffic laws are so much more strict on the Westside than the Eastside because the folks with money over there know how to butter up their elected officials.
“And I’m sorry does the Eastside and East Los Angeles look like freaking Amsterdam or Portland? No it doesn’t I think it looks more like Lower Eastside in New York and so would you put an at grade train with no barriers are protection in the LES, no you wouldn’t that would be stupid.”
Definitely (Eastside doesn’t look like anything but the Eastside)…but it DEFINITELY does NOT look like the Lower Eastside even by a long shot. If anything Amsterdam looks much more like the lower eastside due to the density and height of buildings. But Browne, I feel like your are missing my point…Amsterdam is bustling with people and bicycles on the road and in the streets…the place is frickin CROWDED yet they somehow manage to get trains through safely. here is a link just to show you what a highly successful and efficient train looks like with no barriers…and btw make sure to tell the person to watch out because they probably don’t know any better…or just tell them the Amsterdam Transit is racist, classist, or whatever you want to call it.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4Xse6HZNpfI/R19O-3bWSUI/AAAAAAAAAH4/dUFli4WGkpM/s288/Picture+219.jpg
“Um, no it is not. But then again it is pointless to argue with people who enjoy constantly playing victim and crying racism, classism, or whatever -ism turns them on”
Uh, yes it is, but I guess it’s pointless to argue with people who think that one part of town should presume they will be treated as equal citizens, and when they get the short end of the stick they should just assume that it was not racism or classism that plays into the scenario and shut up. Uh, oh no.
And screaming at the top of one’s lungs and demanding accountability and equal treatment is not being a victim it’s called being pro-active and not rolling over.
These fuckers only wish we were acting like victims but those days are gone.
What is this person even talking about? There is no rail on the westside. And besides, the Wilshire corridor is the densest in California, making it most suited for subway. The Eastside extension is fantastic and safe. Most cities have light rail. Look at San Francisco, Boston, Portland and countless other cities where trains are at grade and they are safe. People just need to be alert.
Chimatli,
I will keep you updated.
To the nasty commeters just for reference I love nasty comments. Keep them coming. There is nothing that makes me happier the upsetting the status quo. All these comments means this matters to you. That’s great. F*ck the status quo and everyone who worships them. See I’m mean-spirted too ha-ha!!!
I have an actual factual comment coming, but later. Right now I’m off to cocktails.
Amazing how people act, how dare I have an opinion what I said is true and what do these assholes have to say about it, “Well the stupid people will just get hit by a train,” or “People should just watch out.”
Seriously!!!…Why don’t we get rid of seat belts and air bags and social security and public schools and traffic lights, lets have survival of the fittest. I love that for the people of LA Curbed, half of these people saying people should just watch out for the train wouldn’t make it day without the gov’t wiping their ass.
And this isn’t about that, its about not putting a dangerous fast moving vehicle with no safety considerations down a pedestrian and car traffic heavy area.
And as I said Metro knows its dangerous that’s what the safety people and cameras are for, that’s is some utter bullshit. I personlly don’t know why more people on the Eastside and in East Los Angeles aren’t more pissed about this. I would be some where yelling at some body if I lived by that thing or had to go by it.
As I said earlier why don’t you go down during rush hour and check it out yourself…do whatever you want when that thing opens you’ll see.
Browne
Browne I live two blocks from the Atlantic station and I have no problem with it. If you’re dumb enough to get in the way of a several-ton vehicle that moves on FIXED tracks, at a FIXED speed, at predictable intervals, with CLEAR signage you are beyond hope.
As others have pointed out, we are plenty smart enough on the eastside to avoid getting hit. Thousands of Europeans live in much closer proximity to at-grade streetcars without a problem.
Sure, it would be nice if the original heavy rail subway to the eastside had been built but you can blame short-sighted local voters in 1996 for that one.
My favorite argument is about the westside. You are fully aware that there is no light rail of any kind on the westside, right?
And DQ, for you I love this one:
“If Rapid transit is safe and clean on the Westside then there is no other reason except racism that the transit system on the Eastside shouldn’t have the same safeguards and service quality.”
There IS NO rapid transit other than busses on the westside! Unless of course you consider the south bay the westside, and FYI the green line is neither safe, nor clean, nor particularly good in service quality.
Oh it’s dumbass again, I mean justB. I apologize for calling you a dumbass.
The track is fixed, but it’s on a curve. The cars aren’t fixed. The people aren’t fixed. There are three signals around that Indiana curve and it’s confusing. Do you stop here or there or where? Human error, heard of that it means sometimes accidents happen and it seems that people will have to be perfect for an accident to not happen there. It’s right next to a school. It’s so close its “someone could push you into a train” close to a school. The curve goes up along a crosswalk that seems pretty busy and this was on Sunday. I can’t imagine the insanity that will happen on a Monday 5pm.
On the original post I have a video of the section I am talking about, but since you live on Atlantic you can go down to Indiana on your freetime and look on your on.
And just for reference you do understand the train I’m talking about on the Westside is the Expo line? They are building it (right now,) if you left your neighborhood and read a paper (they have papers online now) you’d know that. Is it not in Wikipedia yet, your source for information? Let me go and put it in there so you know it actually exists. You do know anyone can edit Wikipedia, just saying because I want to help you.
http://www.buildexpo.org/
Ernest already posted this, but you seem insistent on the fact that the Westside line is some thing that is a figment of my imagination to me that right there should strike you out of this conversation, but I am having fun right now so I will continue. Yes I understand it’s not running yet but they are building it I have seen it with my own eyes, just like the MGLEE it’s not running yet but it will be, because you see the tracks and stuff right? Do you understand what I am saying? Is this concept too big for you? Are my words too big? Should I just stick with one syllable words?
Maybe if I communicated this in picture form you would be able to comprehend this better, but the comment section doesn’t allow me draw a picture for stupid people.
Browne
So how much of the Expo Line will be grade separated? Santa Monica’s a pretty white/rich area, isn’t it? I guess that section of the Expo Line will be entirely underground.
And I really love it! “justB” with foot in mouth,
“There IS NO rapid transit other than busses on the Westside! Unless of course you consider the south bay the Westside, and FYI the green line is neither safe, nor clean, nor particularly good in service quality.”
Ahem, Uh, hmmm, I refer you to Browne’s comment above, it’s called the Expo Line and will end up going through Culver City, West Los Angeles, and Santa Monica. Unless you are from Podunk, Kentucky you should know that this is referred to as the “Westside” here in LA.
And as a further aide to help your confusion about not only the Expo Line (going through the Westside), but about how dangerous street level crossings are and why many people are upset that on the Eastside we get street level crossings and told by many that we are crybabies and ingrates, not to mention suffering from victim syndrome when we show concern and are pissed about the inequality in safety along the rail tracks.
Here is an article from the LA Times June 24, 2009 about just how dangerous street level crossings are,
“The board resolution relates to the second phase of the project, which would run from Culver City to Santa Monica. Phase 1 from downtown Los Angeles to Culver City has already generated considerable controversy about street-level crossings near schools. That segment is under construction.
The resolution notes that MTA’s Blue Line from Long Beach to Los Angeles, which has street-level crossings, has become the nation’s deadliest light-rail line. It also states that the Expo Line should not be built near the two schools because it could violate the district’s 128-foot distance requirement for active rail lines.”
Got it now? Sabes Chavez?
“Uh, yes it is, but I guess it’s pointless to argue with people who think that one part of town should presume they will be treated as equal citizens, and when they get the short end of the stick they should just assume that it was not racism or classism that plays into the scenario and shut up. Uh, oh no.
And screaming at the top of one’s lungs and demanding accountability and equal treatment is not being a victim it’s called being pro-active and not rolling over.
These fuckers only wish we were acting like victims but those days are gone.”
Someone call the Waaambulance!
Listen up Mr. Don Quixote, I was born and raised in the area that the Gold Line extension runs through and absolutely thrilled it is being built.
If you and your cohorts are so concerned about racist light rail, is anyone teaching these people you claim to be so concerned about that flashing train lights and warning sounds mean “stay away from train tracks”?
¿Entiendes Mendez?
I don’t know how anyone could say that the subway part of the East Side’s rail line covers the densely populated area, where it emerges above ground in less dense areas. I’ve seen where that line is, driven down the street it goes down. (Chavez? …forget what street it goes down, but I followed it a few months back). There is no part of that rail line that is “less dense”. It’s highly populated, all the way through, with kids running everywhere and old people crossing streets at every corner.
I understand the fiscal argument. But to play devil’s advocate, the money that’s going to be doled out in lawsuits due to people getting clipped by that train is going to far exceed whatever the cost of the barriers would be. I’m playing devil’s advocate here. After all, I think the barriers should be there simply for moral reasons.
A human condition that crosses all economic classes and colors of skin dictates that some people are going to screw up. Some mom is going to be looking the other way when her little one jets right in front of that train. Some old guy with bad hearing is going to be off in his own world and is going to step right into the train’s path. This WOULD happen in the better areas where there are safety barriers, if they weren’t there. The belief that it wouldn’t is delusional at best, outright racist at worst.
As far as “cities all over the world” having similar setups as East Side’s line, do any of you actually have the statistics to back up your claims that these trains run without incident? I seem to recall SF having problems with light rail vs. pedestrian accidents.
The real issue is how fast the train will run. If it runs slowly, it’ll be safe. If it’s fast, it’ll be dangerous.
Here’s a link to a video of a guy who jumps on the back of a train in Amsterdam:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_B-6TSz10E
That train is slow, like 3mph. Will MTA run the train slowly in the span between 1st/Lorena to 3rd/Indiana?
I think the key things to prevent are a train that barrels out of the subway tunnel at 1st st, and excessive acceleration down 3rd st past the freeway.
They’ll argue that commute times will be too long. Too bad. If they wanted it to be fast, they could have run it underground or elevated all the way through. Otherwise, welcome to the reality of the urban train: it is slower than your car.
They slowed the Gold line in South Pasadena, due to political pressure, even though their “walkable city” vision is mostly a vision and some street level retail facades. People drive to the coffee shops.
We don’t need another Blue line death train.
Racism/Classism does exist in the MTA board. Originaly the eastside was going to get a full underground SUBWAY. It was supposed to be built simultaneous to the one in Hollywood. This was because the late U.S. Congressman Roybal knew the history of the eastside always getting shortchanged. A SUBWAY is what the eastside was going to get.
Roybal dies and his legacy was not honored when people in the MTA board voted to do the Hollywood line first, Congress did nothing about it. So while building the Hollywood line- guess what happend!!! All kinds of things started going wrong during the construction and so they needed to get money to fix and repare what they fuc*ed up. Guess where they got the money from. The MTA board voted to raid the eastside subway budget. So after they finished the nice Hollywood line its time to build the eastside subway, Oh wait, what!? The eastside doesn’t have enough money. Royball predicted this scenerio. So, we are left with a little trolly on steroids to connect us to… the north east of LA County.
Now, I hear talk about a subway to the sea. That is awesome. The eastside will be connected all the way to the sea, right after we transfer on to a subway at union station.
@Caxcan
True but not entirely true, you’re conveniently leaving out stuff. You left out the part where at the helm of Zev the county voted in 1997/8 against using any local funds for building any subway in LA County which effectively killed the Eastside Subway Extension. Where was the Eastside when this vote went down? Again, dragging the feet and after the fact complaining. This was a countywide decision! Why didn’t the Eastside fight for its subway?* So now you end up w/ as Molina calls it, a little choo choo train. My people, my people.
*The sentiment was that if the rich white Westside certainly didn’t want a subway why should we? The first step in breaking down racism and classism is to free yourself from a slave mentality. Where was the organization on the Eastside to fight and defeat this obvious classist/racist measure to deny East LA of its much deserved subway? “Well I guess if massah don won it en his pawt of town, why shoold we”? Sad.
Fallopia,
I didn’t conveniently leave things out. I was expecting you and other people to contribute to the conversation. Yeah we bitch about the past but we are also preparing for the future. We learn from our mistakes and the actions of others. We do not have a slave mentality it is our reality.
You are the one with the problem talking down and beign condescending to people as if you are all mighty. We have endured and so we will endure.
Browne & DQ you guys are fully aware that the portion of the expo line (which I am quite familiar with) in Santa Monica will run AT GRADE, right?
In addition, my original point still stands – there is no light rail on the westside. There’s none on the eastside yet, either, but the expo line is even further away from being complete.
And I can see the Atlantic station from the end of my block, and I still don’t see the problem.
As for your other points here you go:
“The track is fixed, but it’s on a curve. The cars aren’t fixed. The people aren’t fixed.”
And this is different than a regular street how? Do you propose that every busy street in the city be grade separated from the sidewalk?
“There are three signals around that Indiana curve and it’s confusing. Do you stop here or there or where?”
There are clear signs and markings on the ground telling you where to stop. There are also very clear lighted signs that tell you when the train is nearby. Plus, with the exception of the actual intersections, there are curbs between the traffic lanes and the tracks. So in that way I would suggest that it’s SAFER than a regular road.
” Human error, heard of that it means sometimes accidents happen and it seems that people will have to be perfect for an accident to not happen there.”
Yes, but we cannot protect everyone from themselves. At some point people must be responsible for their own actions.
“It’s right next to a school. It’s so close its “someone could push you into a train” close to a school.”
You realize that Hamasaki elementary school is a few blocks away and opens right onto a fairly busy stretch of 1s street, right? How is it different between the school being right next to a road with distracted, cell-phone-talking drivers?
“The curve goes up along a crosswalk that seems pretty busy and this was on Sunday. I can’t imagine the insanity that will happen on a Monday 5pm.”
Again, so? I mean, sure, in a perfect world we would have a subway. But we don’t. Do not let pursuit of perfection and a sense of being wronged cloud your judgement.
Incidentally voters in 1997 voted to kill it. COUNTYWIDE as others have pointed out. Why did we not organize against the measure? We Eastsiders did this to ourselves.
Hush justB! You are making too much sense for some of the regulars on this blog!
“Why did we not organize against the measure? We Eastsiders did this to ourselves.”
This is like blaming the Jews for not rising up against the Nazis.
Uh oh! Nazi talk! It was just a matter of time before Godwin’s Law took effect here.
The East Side got Subway restaurants. Maybe that was their rouse all along?
“You guys want Subways?”
You can’t put anything past them anymore.
Caxcan, of course racism and classism exist on the MTA’s board. These LA Curbed trolls think that in order for someone to be a racist, they have to wear a white sheet and ride around on a horse while wielding a noose. Racism hasn’t existed since the slaves were freed. Since then, why, whites have been the real victims of racism. White women in the south will tell you of times they had to endure extremely fresh attitudes from blacks when telling them to get off the sidewalk and walk on the street, where they belong. “He called me a cracker whore! Now if that’s not racist… hello?!?”
The truth is today’s racism is a passive form of racism. It exists precisely in places like MTA’s boardroom. And, race is never brought up, just policy that everyone in the room knows will effect race… They know the LA East Side is mostly Mexican American. They know South Central is mostly black and Mexican American. They know Santa Monica is white. So when they say, “do we really want to throw this much money into a project in East Los Angeles”? They know good and well what they’re saying as those words flow out of their mouths. “You can’t tell me we’re going to spend this much money on Mexicans. We gave them a fucking train. They can take it or leave it”. Aren’t we even seeing the same sentiment from some of our LA Curbed friends? Of course, they think because they’re omitting the actual word Mexican that they’re exempt from racism accusations. Wrong. Racism accusation, right at you. Snobs. Oh, and I checked out LA Curbed. It sucks. Boring, upper class liberal captain obvious bullshit about every mundane, irrelevant event that happens in LA. I’ll take a feisty, truth to power blog like this one that looks (and finds) racism in every corner!
Caxan – dude, seriously that was uncalled for.
I love the eastside and la raza and all that it stands for too but seriously that’s Bullshit and you know it.
It was a democratically passed measure. Thank your fellow county residents, not some unnamed dictator.
Goodwins law is an attempt to discredit anyone who uses any reference to Nazis, by assuming the Jews are the “most persecuted people”. I am willing to bet that you respond to critical views of the Jewish state, by very simply calling people, “Anti Semites!!” We should never forget the evils of the Nazis and we should never stop referencing them when needed. If you Very Simple wish to end this conversation, say so. I bet this discussion isn’t over because not everyone has the same pitty and sensativities as you do.
How nice it would be to just say a word and all of a sudden it is game over, LOL! How convenient for you.
Just B,
Please clarify,
What is uncalled for?
What is bullshit?
bullshit is blaming someone else for *our* problems like voting against the heavy rail subway extension to East LA. Don’t pretend like someone else forced this on us.
Uncalled for is bringing out the nazi/jew reference. That’s not even relevant or proportionate.
JustB, what does La Raza stand for? You said you love everything La Raza stands for. Elaborate on that. Give us your best definition of La Raza.
Just B, why do you have to emphasize *our* when saying “our problems”? Are you paranoid that people don’t believe you’re Chicano?
Voting and Democracy. Ask the anti prop 8 people how they feel about voting and democracy. And, although the Nazi reference was not proportionate it is relevant.
Bob Marley,
“No chains around my feet,
But Im not free”
“We should never forget the evils of the Nazis and we should never stop referencing them when needed.”
**************************
Referencing the Nazis and the Holocaust when the subject matter is non-existent rail trains on the West-Side is relevant how?
@Caxcan
I won\’t even go there with you Caxcan. And a Marley reference to boot! Goes well with a line in \”Redemption Song\”:
\”No one but ourselves
can free our minds\”.
I won\’t even touch the Prop 8 issue because you just got silly on that one.
Many times we ourselves are partially the cause of our own demise because putting Marley\’s words into context that you quoted: There are \”no chains around my feet but I\’m not FREE\”. This fits in well with his ideology that I quoted earlier which says: \”no one but ourselves can FREE our minds\”.
The Eastside voted (or worse didn\’t vote at all) along with everyone else to discontinue local funds going to a subway, effectively killing their own chances at a subway on the Eastside. From what I read the turnout for this election wasn\’t even that great so as a mobilized force with say Molina at the helm this could have been taken care of swiftly and without question. The Eastside dropped the ball……sorry.
Then when I attend a Crenshaw meeting with scant attendance it\’s the same thing. The Inglewood mayor has pleaded for more people to get involved early and attend these meetings so that we can have world class transit running through our hood. But nah, we\’ll just wait til the thing is built and then complain.
The last thing our community needs is a narcissist who \”just loves to upset the status quo\”. Someone who may be a full grown degreed adult but who is still very much an adolescent at heart, we\’ll call it the MJ effect(rest his dear soul). We need real leaders in our communities who don\’t think it\’s just \”fun\” to go up against the grain and run around video taping a train that has already been built and was under construction and planning over the past 10 years. Nah, these type of folks are only self serving and indulgent who like to pop up in the 4th quarter and act like some kind of hero. We no longer need these type slugs in our communities any longer.
As a sidenote I saw Damien on channel 4 the other day talking about the Blue Line along Washington and this is the guy that I came to like. He was poised and gave only the facts. Hopefully he can get enough folks interested in the Crenshaw Line early so that we can have the best LRT alignment in the country.
Hector – I’m not chicano, 100% caucasian if it matters. by *our* I mean ‘East L.A. residents’ – read into that what you will. The ‘La Raza’ reference was trying to diffuse the racist accusations that would most likely follow.
arguing on the internet is like the special olympics. even if you win you’re still retarded.
Browne, keep up the posts on LA Eastside & The Bus Bench. someone needs to tell it like it is!
Oh, and Caxan I was WAITING for the prop 8 reference. I was going to pull it out myself but thanks for doing it for me.
It’s exactly the same thing. Now that gay marriage is illegal we have only ourselves to blame.
Blue Demon, the thing is Browne is NOT telling it like it is. Her posts have an annoying, victim tone that’s totally unnecessary. I know I’m not the only regular Laeastside reader that thinks that way. In the ‘real world’ my friends that read the blog all complain about her posts.
Fallopia,
I don’t believe Bob Marley was contradicting himself. Chains on ones feet is a physical action as apposed to freeing ones mind is a spiritual thing. Totally different. Have you heard of a happy slave? The slave is not happy because he/she is a slave. The slave is a happy person who happens to be a slave.
If you think the whole prop 8 issue is silly, well I think you just pissed off alot of people.
You are the status quo and so it bothers you when people confront you. It reminds me of a queen who once said, “Let them eat cake.” Well…, do you know what happend to her?
i got to say i agree with justB.
However, i have to admit i like the conversation this article started. This is probably the most comments i have seen from readers and a wider array of them, not the regular readers. Thou, some of the comments are a mean spirited from both sides.
@caxcan – what the hell is a happy slave?
A slave that’s happy is a deluded slave. I think being happy when you’re unfree is real “mental slavery.”
Here’s one thing that’s bothering me abut justb’s attitude – it’s like free people telling slaves to “free yourself”. Yes, everyone has to free themselves, but, it’s also the responsiblity of those already free to help liberate the unfree.
If all this train crap was crystal clear to you, were you out there explaining it to people who clearly didn’t understand what was going on?
I’m saying this as someone who’s lived more than half his life on the “ignorant folks” side of reality. And I’m not some dummy here – I went to a great college, was fortunate to go to a good local high school, and have a few neurons to rub together. There’s just this little issue of a lack of “knowledge”, “access”, and “experience” that seems to go along with being a minority/immigrant family/lower middle class family.
Just B, rather you’re Chicano, white, black, Asian, Russian, Samoan, or Aborigines, you said you “love everything la raza stands for”. What does it stand for? Yes, I’m indeed reading into it. And now even more so, since you said you’re white. When a white person says they love everything la raza stands for (when they were never asked…), it’s Q and A time, hombre.
This is an amusing discussion. The hard part about this topic is that its creates a lot of emotional responses, and those touchy subjects often require legnthy disclaimers in order to keep people from gathering offense. I would believe that despite her often appropriate gripes, Browne will use this line and appreciates its existance and future opening, as she often makes trips to Eastlos and is dependant on public transit. Anyone who knows a little about the author should realize she values enhanced transit amenities for working class communities such as this soon to be opened light rail line, but that same concern is what is fueling her opinions on the subject, and for the most part she is not wrong.
For the record, I agree with much of what Browne said, and have attended numerous esgl meetings years before the train began construction for the purpose of helping create the best outcome. I followed the eastside rail fiasco since the original redline plan was scrapped (the day after they cut a ribbon on the project) as a transit nerd, eastlos resident and PT user. I know the eastside got screwed, and understand what went down because I vehemently followed it like a broken hearted lover infatuated with what he lost (Im not joking, ask my wife and exes). I know that dissonance and indifference are much more of the reason why the MTA churned out this project as acceptable, and economic reality mixed with desperation to give the eastside any kindof rail service possible, as well as local furvor stirred up by populist outrage from the mishandled hollywood redline are all part of what got us here.
That being said, I went to the community meeting for this rail line, and voiced my concerns about the specific locations causing the safety problems we are dealing with today. In fact, a personal friend who is dealing with the esgl issues sat down with me recently and joked about how “I called it” on almost every problem they are having (sans the electrical issue leading them to break up portions of the alignment right now on 3rd). Im sure there is record of my comments and suggestions regarding the esgl, as I attended and spoke at several meetings on my concerns (specifically the lorena to 3rd portion), as well as made several lenghty calls to MTA officials, and wrote several letters pointing out my concerns. And I wasnt the only one, several local residents and many merchants voiced the same concerns.
Another commenter noted how Browne and anyone else now complaining shouldve raised those issues during the scoping meetings and EIR process (which is correct in terms of actually making changes in the most impactful manner), but those same people now bitch and loathe Damien Goodmon doing that very thing today. I tend to disagree with Mr. Goodmon’s “stop the train’ stance, and for that reason did not raise a ruckus when I realized much of my insight was not acted upon nor given any valid reasoning why it was dismissed once finalized plans and physical construction began. I sucked it up and was greatful for rail finally getting into eastlos, which I will use a lot when ever the hell it opens.
I was elated to see they put entrances on both sides of most stations, which was not originally planned and advocated by myself. I appreciated the enhanced landscaping that I also had mentioned, and a few other quirks I advocated. But a lot was ignored, mainly the Lorena-3rd alignment, which I had vehemently raised issues about and given them a pretty cost comparable option for (running the train along the south side of 1st in a trench, mitigating the ped-auto crossing hazards whic his the big issue). Another one was the atlantic station parking lot, or not putting the power substation exactly on corner, which they did. I know a lot of it has to do with money, but Browne and D Goodmon and the BRU folks and anyone else who rides the bus/rails and understands that transit equity has a LONG way to go will never be at a loss for ammo when the MTA can magically find money for underground trenches and extra stations for USC students and elevated structures along culver city streets when they are at-grade at much busier intersections a few miles eastward in a much more dark complected community. (despite leaps forward) But I digress…
My point is, being a person who is giddy for this train to open, who participated in the conceptualization process, who is happy to get this upgrade in transit, blah blah blah…..
Am I allowed to raise my concerns, and are my concerns and the notions i develop because those concerns were not addressed, whiney overvictimiztion? Does the fact that I said almost every thing that is now becoming safety issues mean that the complaints by Browne and others here any more valid? If you dont belive me go look up my comments from the Friends4Expo discussion board from 5 or 6 years ago, I was raising those issues back then and here we are now.
Anyways, I put my issues with the alignment to bed a while back, Im just happy that a train is nearby in in my community. I now think the best use of this energy will be in advocating the best transit service options for future projects and plans on the east and south sides (the west side has enough advocates, as illustrated in the speed they put up a west hollywood redline extension) where people are often too busy working or arent aware of the development process for projects in their area.
I dont think the Supervisor acting mad at the eastside getting shortchanged (which it was) will do any good for her constituency now, now is the best time to help direct the train in the best path for phase 2, and to advocate for the best transti service for other eastside corridors.
Because of that, I dont want the esgl to go down to the whittier blvd corridor and belive the 60 orridor alignment is the most logical. It will be too long of a ride, will skip the biggest PT depednant communities along whittier blvd and is not politically palatable east of Garfield avenue. In terms of the eastside getting adequate rail coverage, a red (or purple or whatver they call it) line extension from 7th street metro center east thru DTLA then along whittier from Lorena all the way grade seperate is what east LA needs and deserves. The LRT goldline should run along the 60 corridor (not on the freeway but for a brief portion where the train can take advantage of grade seperation) clear into the SGV and the more transit dependant areas along the 605. And the El Monte Busway lanes should be converted into an SGV redline extension (with sheltered stations) for a cheap effective rail linkge to the most congested corridor in the central eastside and the SGV.
@art
just a thought, but dont some of your proposed railways just fall in line with Metrolink line both the San Bernardino and Riverside line
justB,
“When a white person says they love everything la raza stands for (when they were never asked…), it’s Q and A time, hombre.” Hector Sr
Yeah what he said, with your “our people” talk and “La Raza” talk you were trying to act like you were a POC, so yeah you need to answer some questions. I guess you thought pretending like you were Latino would have gotten you some slack as if we’re prejudice like you are (this is probably one of the reasons you don’t like me right…lol…)
I guess since I called you stupid you thought you might as well just come out and tell the truth since pretending was getting you nowhere, because I don’t care and neither does anyone here.
We don’t care if you’re disabled, transgendered, native born, an immigrant, black or white or Latino or Asian or purple or a combination of those things it’s what you say.
justB and you and your friends are going to probably keep disliking me because I don’t write for you. I don’t write for your benefit. I’m writing for the people who have to go to the library to use the computer.
____________________________________________
Oh and by the way Art, that was a post, why don’t your write a post and stop making these really insightful comments in the commenting section
Browne
rob,
yes you are correct, and that very fact is a good example of how far we have to go in terms of transit equity and how complicated pt issues are.
let me explain:
the 2 metrolink lines serve their purpose well, and are 2 of the highest rideship m-link lines in the city, but they do what they are suppoosed to do, shuttle business people into the city from far off suburbs. The communities along each corridor these lines serve are gereally pre ww2 suburbs for at least 10 miles out, meaning they are dense and working class. To expect a suburban commuter train that charges $6 a trip to provide the same service as LRT/HRT is a bit of a stretch. Look at the 10 corridor, which has a solid stretch of communities with densities well above 15k per square mile, communities of working class asians and latinos for over a dozen miles: boyle hts, east la-city terrace, alhambra, monterey park, rosemead, el monte, baldwin park. Every one of the east west bus lines heading into DTLA from these points is stuffed much of the day, whereas 90% of these local commuters are not on the metrolink either because there are too sparse of stations for such a dense corridor or it is too expensive.
Same goes for the 60 corridor- riverside line: boyle hts, east la, montebello-commerce, south san gabriel, bassett, la puente, valinda. These are corridors that deserve much more than a service to help wealthy commuters.
Which is why they are a good example of transit inequity, the eastside, which holds one of the largest blocks of working class minority communities has an abundance of suburban commuter lines that are priced above a realistic range for most of the residents who live wihtin the first 12 miles of its alignment. On top of that, these lines have far too few stations for such a dense urban area (another reason why this mode of transit is not a good fit to service these communities, the train needs to go quick which means few stations) and they are in poor areas wher patrons must either drive or catch a bus-shuttle to get there. Which is why every metrolink station within the older suburb core of LA county is in a industrial area and has a huge parking lot.
In terms of the El Monte busway redline conversion, the beauty of it is how easy it will be. All you gotta do is move the actual HOV busway onto that extra lane now empty, and place rail down and stations along the lane where the HOv lanes currently exist. The communities around this freeway were built around the old PE line that the 10 follows, so they are dense and full of transit dependant locals (drive down valley or garvey and see what I mean). In fact, this conversion was part of the original MTA rail plan as well as was a major future project when they built the metrolink and hov lanes alogn the corridor 20 years ago.
The 60- riverside line corridor is a bit different, because after the garfield-wilcox area of montebello the density around the corridor falls off (for the actual riverside alignment density is nonexistant as the line runs thru industrial areas, which is why nobody walks to the montebello metrolink stop, which is really Commerce). Because the esgl phase 2 extension would run thru sparse areas and the whittier narrows rec area for 5 miles with few crossings, this would be perfect way to mitigate the bogged down travel time the street running section will have. This will connect the desne areas of the 605 area, fill in a major commute gap, and continue the esgl following the corridor it now will currently run along the 1st-3rd-SR60 corridor. The transit service needs of the eastside are FAR too big for one light rail line to criss cross corridors to hit, and for the most part it already misses the nearby destinations because it was built on the cheap so the eastside could get some kind of rail (calle brooklyn, calle primera, eastlos whittier blvd, atlantic square, the maravilla strip of chavez).
Rail transit onthe eastside, up until the esgl, has been almost like freeways, planning for people beyond the barrio. it is ironic that people assume metrolink adequately services the eastside when the demographics of metrolink patrons and eastside residents are rarely the same thing. Dont belive me, ride the 76, 70, 68, 487, arrow hwy bus, 79, 40 and every other east-west running bus thru the eastside, they are stuffed during commuting times and often for much of the day.
Not to mention that the whole “the westside doesnt have rail and the eastside does” comparison is not relevant to begin with. The westside runs for a little more than 10 miles west from DTLA before it hits the ocean, with a ridge of mountains to the north and more water to the south of it. The eastside connects DTLA and the central city (including the westside) to the rest of the nation, to the rest of the state, to the rest of the La metro area (with the exception of the 405 and cahuenga pass). 90% of trucks that radiate out from our ports and downtown dont rumble thru the west side of LA, they run thru the eastside. The eastside also connects the 2 million person San gabriel valley to Los Angeles, one of the most heavilly urbanized valleys in the country; as well as the 3 million person Inland Empire and 3 million person Orange County.
Sorry Browne.
Never mind the safety issues. When the Eastside Extension raises property values the new bitchfest is going to be about gentrification. I can’t fucking wait.
Seriously Browne your tone is exactly what I was talking about. I’m not prejudiced, but since I’m white you assume I am. Typical – especially for you.
I wasn’t pretending shit, FYI, I’m married to a wonderful Chicana and I live in East LA. East LA problems are ‘our’ problems. I don’t see where I misled anything, just sympathizing with Caxan’s anger but commenting on the tone.
And ‘Alienation’ I had no attitude of ‘free yourselves’ I have the attitude that you should use your common sense not to get run over by a freakin’ train! My neighbor’s 12-year-old kid seems to have a pretty good grasp on the subject – sure, there are better ways to deal with the safety issue but at some point we have to take some responsibility for our own actions.
One last comment – Art thank you for your clear, reasoned explanation of the issues. You should make it a post.
justB,
Why don’t you stop whining like you are four years old?
I don’t think you’re prejudice because you are white. I think you’re prejudice because of the things that you type on your computer and just for reference anyone can be prejudice, latinos, african-americans, asians, white people, yeah everyone. It’s a human trait.
You were freaking pretending. You’re married to a Chicana so you think that gives you the right to say “we” and “our people.” I live on the Eastside are you referring to me when you say “our people” I bet you’re not.
Your explanation of that just makes no sense. On one hand you think I bring up race too much, right? And you think we’re all one race the human race right? Cause you seem to be that type, but yet on the same token you’re going to segregate yourself and pretend to be one race that you’re not by using terms you know damn well signifies what you were trying to lie and say you were.
First you clearly implied you were Latino, then when you realize that doesn’t work you try to use your white privilege to shove your superiority down people’s throats (how stupid everyone else is and how smart you are) and then finally you use your wife, you use her as some kind of flag to wave how you are ok.
You should have just been yourself. No one asked about your ethnicity and no one assumed anything about you, I certainly did not. You were the one that implied you were Latino and then you were the one who brought you were white and then it was you who brought up your wife. You should have just said what you needed and supported it with facts, instead you come on here with a bunch of bs personal anecdotes about how you know because you live here and have a Latina wife.
What does your wife’s ethnicity have to do with anything? Does your wife catch the train? Does she take the bus? Do your kids, because that would have been a reason to bring them up. Does your wife know that you are writing this regarding her? Does your wife know that you are using her so you can win brownie points on a freakin blog? What the hell is that?
Disgraceful.
The main people who have an issue with people who talk about racism are always the ones who have some sick relationship with race.
Browne
Just B, it’s unfortunate we never got your explanation of what la raza stands for. Maybe you’re still looking it up on Wikipedia, or trying to get your Chicana wife to tell you.
BTW, Browne, amidst all the chaos on this thread, you nailed it with another great blog entry. Everyone with a brain knows if the East Side was a wealthy, white area more effort would have gone into safety when building the rail lines. It’s the people insisting it’s not so who are the real antagonists. Speak truth to power and let the lemmings yell whatever they want as they file toward the cliff.
Fuck all the whining and fights, lets use this website as a means of advocating what the EXS deserves, real appropriate rail service.
I have 3 ninos (incluyen 1 newborn),a full timey job, run an nonprofit org and juggle falmigns shite on the side. My email is agonzalez@elacamp.org
Lets organize some intelligent, transit oriented eastisders to help decide what goes where in the next steps, it took those pansies west of la brea less time to get the MTA balling on some BS santa monica redline extension thru west hollywood. Sup Gloria is growling for some REAL constiuency to light some fire under her nalgas, lets do it.
I got plenty of excuses to not do shite, all i need is the push of someone else with some ganas. Let me see it, email me……
Art,
I believe the trench at Flower/Fig/Expo has nothing to do with USC and everything to do with traffic. Please correct me if I’m mistaken, and if in fact there are intersections on the Gold Line to the eastside that see as many cars as Expo/Fig (plus the numerous on- and off-ramp lanes for the 110).
However, I do find it absolutely ridiculous that there will be 3 stations adjacent to USC. I find the proximity b/w the Expo/Vermont station and Expo Park station particularly galling.
As for Darwinism, the Expo line becomes at grade east of Trousdale Parkway, a very popular path for walking to/from campus and the Coliseum. We’ll see how many inebriated football fans are fit to survive.
Lastly, is anyone going to take a stab at explaining why the Expo line will be at-grade in Santa Monica?
My apologies Jon, you are correct about the trench. I actually meant that extra station for USC, which will be a couple hundred yards away from the Vermont station and is ridiculously unecessary.
Im all for personal responsibility, and despite the blue line being a glaring example of disregard for community in transit design, almost every person hit or killed by the train had nobody to blame but themselves. That being said, I dont really think social darwinism has any place in this debate. The pedestrian environment in LA is totally different than SF or Amsterdam, and although this is not a call to exonerate people of acting cautious, to be a pedestrian in many parts of working class LA means having to break rules and undermine authority to get where you have to go.
That has bit to do with the biggest safety issue on the esgl so far, the people who walk across the ROW between el mercadito and the tamaleria/ party store across the street, especially on busy weekends. Personally (and Ive told this to officials now trying to mitigate this problem), I think the easiest fix is to put up a metal fence on either side of the ROW on that stretch, people cant cross it any more. I dont agree with the MTA using a ticket heavy approach to safety, it is the usual way they handle things in the barrio (but not wealthy areas) and has not been very productive in terms of results.
Regarding the Santa at garde situation. This elevation was chosen by the community because the train will generally follow a pre-existing right of way that the old PE line ran on. When you have an existing ROW, the physical area around intersections is often much better suited for integrating the train with the community and safety. Which is exactly what is going on with the santa monica section.
Browne, seriously WTF? I brought up anecdotes to give my comments some context, not to get ‘points’ as you put it. The same kind of crap you do in every post. Your whole post, in fact, was couched in racial terms (as are most of your posts)
FYI my wife reads and usually posts on LA Eastside more than I do, so get over yourself.
I typed/wrote/said nothing prejudiced from the beginning, and nothing that had a whiff of ‘superiority’ – I don’t think I’m better than anyone and ride the bus all the f-ing time. I just live here and I’m thrilled that ‘we’ (better watch my usage of that word, I guess) get a state-of-the-art light rail line of ‘our’ very own.
Anyway, back to regularly-scheduled programming. I apologize to the regulars for wasting precious electrons on this petty crap.
This Just B has a mouth on him, doesn’t he? I’m betting the Chicana wife sends him to the couch a lot of nights, just to get some peace and quiet, if anything. And, I’m sure the Chicano community in East LA appreciates a white outsider, who basically married his way in, speaking for them, Just B. Keep up the good work.
Hey Joe, I’m a Chicano and I feel exactly the same way as JustB. Don’t let these reverse racists get you, JustB. You make too much sense for most of these myopic posters.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
“I grew up in San Francisco, where non-grade-separated streetcars ran through what were then almost entirely white neighborhoods. People didn’t walk or drive into streetcars.”
I must admit that I have little tolerance for intellectual laziness. Its a large part of the reason I refuse to answer folk who ask questions that have already been answered in detail on the FixExpo blog or in the very forum where the question has been posed. All one has to do to know that people do get hit by street cars in San Francisco is google “Muni accident.” Do that and you’ll find out that San Francisco averages about an accident per week on their system, which amazingly still is fewer accidents per mile than the Blue Line some years.
“You know it was initially proposed by Supervisor Molina that it be fully underground, but thanks to the westside supervisors that’s not the case now.”
That’s the story. Politicians were against a Red Line subway extension for the Eastside/East LA, but now are for a western subway extension for their own backyard. And I find it ironic that no one calls out the people who claim, “The eastside was against the subway too.” It’s amazing to see how so many people really do just make shit up to defend MTA’s insane process and policies. The eastside was so against subways, these people expect us to believe, that they tolerated a 1.8 mile portion of the line being placed in a tunnel???
You don’t have to be Einstein to realize that Doesn’t. Make. Sense.
Re: Expo Phase 1
Notice how Fix Expo has focused the environmental injustice issue on Expo Phase 1 (and only Phase 1) and Culver City. See here. Also notice how those who feel there is no E.J. issue talk about everywhere except Culver City? They want to talk Amsterdam, Pasadena, San Francisco, but refuse to talk Culver City. Just why is that?
Fix Expo’s claims are rather easy to understand, and if anyone tried they would see that it is reflective of a larger problem at Metro. Simply, MTA bows to communities which have the power legally and/or political to derail/delay their projects, but for all others they get screwed. And its no coincidence that the ones getting screwed are exponentially more likely to be minority and/or poor.
Re: Expo Phase 2
As many others have said, the City of Santa Monica’s desire for street-level crossings can be attributed to a desire to kill the businesses on Colorado Blvd during construction, much as occurred/is occurring on the eastside so that they can redevelop. Their “more pedestrian friendly” argument is total B.S. to anyone who actually takes a look at the proposed plan (multiple street closures/closed sidewalks, no additional stations, less walk time for pedestrians, etc.). “Easier to redevelop with dead business” is what they’re really saying.
With respect to currently proposed at-grade crossing at Sepulveda/Westwood/Overland, the city of Culver City and Figueroa (by USC) had street-level crossings when they were at the same point Phase 2 is at in its EIR. I’d expect and hope that a similar process occurs there.
Unfortunately, MTA is damned if it does and damned if it doesn’t grade separate the streets. If they don’t the project won’t be built legally. If they do, the project can’t be built legally. The biggest impediment to the completion of Expo Phase 2 is not West LA community groups, but the failure of MTA/Expo Authority to grade separate the major crossings in South LA. How sad that so many “transit advocates” have failed to make the connection. I guess when folk are so busy demonizing people advocating for additional transit funds that there’s little brainpower left.
Re: Eastside extension
I have just four questions:
1) Has anyone claimed that the at-grade portions of the Eastside Extension (none of which have crossing gates) won’t result in the deaths and injury of people on the eastside?
2) Has anyone claimed that the Eastside Extension was not intended to be an eastern Red Line extension?
3) Has anyone claimed that the forces that killed the eastside Red Line extension are now aligning to lobby heavily for a much more expensive version of not just one, but TWO western subways extension of the Red Line?
4) Has anyone claimed that those westside subway lines will be appreciably more safe and less disruptive than the eastside extension?
I don’t see anyone claiming the above. Yet I see so many claiming that concerns about systemic discrimination and environmental racism are baseless. There’s a certain level of cognitive dissonance going on here.
And I totally disagree with art with respect to Fix Expo being about “stopping the train.” That has never been the message of Fix Expo. It has always been clearly and concisely:
You’re going to hit our people, screw up our traffic and cause other adverse community impacts, and you don’t have to if you put the appropriate money in the community which we deserve, and which you have shown you’re willing to do in other areas.
We have marched, lobbied, pointed to the funds available and people now take offense to us getting legal after the political avenues have failed? That’s like getting mad at a battered woman for “breaking up her family” by leaving her abusive husband after years of trying to get the asshole to go to A.A. and marriage counseling to no avail.
In the end what is going to get MTA is their process of disregarding concerns and communities of color, while simultaneously allotting resources in other more affluent and majority Caucasian communities. They know it. They also know we’re at a point which calling the chickens home will cause the maximum amount of financial consequences to the agency. We in South LA are willing to go to these lengths, because first, we’re right, and second, Metro can do something about it. Just because some aren’t willing to go to the mat, doesn’t mean every community should give up and start talking about the color of the trees.
thats what happens when you a difference of opinions here you get attacked and labeled a racist. browne why don’t you debate your point instead of insulting people and calling them names or is that all you have.
Damien,
Thank you for the informative post. A previous poster stated that MTA makes decisions re at-grade vs. grade-separated based upon traffic/congestion. I’m quite familiar with the congestion on Wilshire, but less so with South LA and the Eastside. Does the previous poster’s claim have merit? If not, can you point me to any statistics that refute such a claim? (Apologies for my laziness, which hopefully isn’t of the intellectual sort).
I hadn’t previously heard the argument re Santa Monica agreeing to at-grade rail for the purpose of driving out existing businesses. I do recall reading about merchants in other areas having similar concerns, but being pleasantly surprised at the increase in business and foot-traffic resulting from new accessibility to rail transit. But that’s because their stores survived decreased patronage during construction.
Damien,
Took a quick look at the fixexpo blog. Re the trench at USC, please see my exchange with Art above. Fixexpo makes it sound like the Expo line is grade separated all along USC, but it’s just at Flower/Fig/Expo, and is at-grade at one of the most heavily used intersections (at least during football season): Trousdale/Expo. Yes, please speak out against the abundance of stops at USC ($ allocated to the Expo Park stop could instead be allocated for, say, grade separation at Dorsey and Foshay). But it does not appear that grade-separation was done for USC’s sake. As I recall, USC wanted the entire length of the Expo line b/w Fig and Vermont to be underground, and also didn’t want the Expo Park stop. Well, it looks like USC is getting screwed too.
In the fact sheet entitled “Accident and Fatality Rates of Rails vs Cars”, why use train miles instead of passenger miles? Are freeway and train passenger mile statistics unavailable? Freeway passengers must be fewer than train passengers, per mile driven/operated, but are they 18x fewer?
No surprise there, Very Simple, that you agree with Just B. You always side with white people, no matter what. That’s what Very Simple stands for. The simple thing to do is just agree with the white man. It makes life easier. It’s….Very Simple.
Roberto,
I don’t have to debate my point, my post and my original post says I wanted it to say and quite a few of the people commenting have some good points.
I simply come on here sometimes, because it’s entertaining to me personally.
justB came after me first, so if people don’t like me getting personal don’t get personal with me first, because I don’t care. I’m not above name calling. I am not above cursing you out. I’m completely ok with coming on here just to call you a dumbass, so get personal I’ll get personal want to talk about the facts then read the post and the post linked to it.
You respect me I respect you, you disrespect me, good because I love disrespecting people.
I mean come on you came on here just to tell me “you shouldn’t get personal” as if I care what you think, I don’t.
And I haven’t called ANY individual person a racist. No one on this board has the power to be racist. Racism is an institutional action that has to do with power, so don’t any of you naysayers of Browne flatter yourselves with the notion that I think you’re a racist. If you’re on this blog there is no possible way you could be racist, maybe prejudice (and as I said racism/prejudice as some people use it as meaning the same thing, those are human traits,) but not racist. You could support a racist institution, but you yourself racist, nope that takes a whole lot of money and a whole lot of power for an individual to even get near having the ability to be able to be racist.
Browne
Had to drive through the “Danger Zone” at 3rd and Indiana after reading (a few weeks back, way before this post) about how many people where confused and getting cited by the Sheriffs Dept. Drove through today from Atlantic and followed the line all the way till it goes underground near El Mercadito, didn’t notice anything more dangerous than any of the Blue, Red, and Gold lines I drive by every week, sometimes daily. I’m not any smarter than anyone else living on the Eastside. People are infamous for being able to get used to anything. A little time is all that is needed. Time heals all wounds, too I hear.
Change is hard for people is the simple answer.
Reading this thread I am brought back to the opening of the original Blue line to Long Beach through, then called South Central, when it seemed everyone afraid of change was shouting and spewing that the gangs were going to hijack the trains and kill all the passengers wearing blue or red because the trains where passing through the “hood”.
I can’t wait till the line opens so I can take a ride with my kids and get some Hot Wings and Barbecue at the spot just east of Indiana that someone posted about here on La Eastside a few weeks back.
Has an Opening Rail Day date been released yet on the any “secret” website?
“No surprise there, Very Simple, that you agree with Just B. You always side with white people, no matter what. That’s what Very Simple stands for. The simple thing to do is just agree with the white man. It makes life easier. It’s….Very Simple.”
Oh please. Just because I don’t see life through MEChA-colored glasses doesn’t mean I agree with the “white man” or whatever the fuck that means. Get real.
I don’t know anyone in MEChA, Very simple. Sorry. Keep swinging, compadre. I don’t even know where MECha stands on most issues. It’s obvious you do, however. After all, the white man told you that MEChA is the enemy, so therefore, YOU believe that MEChA is the enemy. You wouldn’t even have a problem with MEChA if the white man hadn’t have told you to hate them. Your invoking MEChA just goes further to prove my point. The white man would have invoked MEChA too, just as you had. But I’ll bet that makes you proud, right compadre?
I am not your compadre. Who is the one going on and on about the “white man” here?
Have fun playing victim to the “white man” all your life. I prefer more constructive activities.
Damien.
I appreciate your comments, but please dont treat me like Im stupid. If I have the logic and understanding to make comments and analysis about the esgl alignment that you agree with, why would that same logic somehow leave my body when forming an opinion on your actions?
In every news article I read with your name on it, you are quoted as saying you will fight rail projects. Heck, you even said recently how you wouldve fought the esgl if you had the chance on the bus bench. What am I supposed to construe from that kind of rhetoric?
I am not one of these buffooons calling you names or making up stuff about you to deflect the content of your position, my opinion is based in your actions and quotes. In fact, for the most part I agree with your position; about a year or two before you got back to LA from college I was making those same points (on the f4e website and transp scoping meeting).
If I am incorrect about your position regarding rail then maybe a bit of introspection about your activities is due, rather than trying to indoctrinate me (being a 3rd gener east LA native whose family has been evicted 3 times for freeway construction, I found your comment to me about what environmental justice to be pretty patronizing and offensive; especially considering i speak to kids in east and south LA higschool on the subject monthly).
Like I have said, if your intention is not to fight rail projects, but to make them designed in a more equitable manner than more power to you, but it does not look that way from my perspective. I am a brown kid who grew up on the RTD busses in Eastlos and is now an environmental planner, i agree with much of what you say. If I am a person who is educated on transp planning and the rail lines you are discussing, agrees with your agenda for the most part, and has laid out analysis of rail ines from which you have used in debates about transit equity and design, why would you merely dismiss my comments as “wrong” and try to teach me about env justice? Wouldnt you think that my comments, which you otherwise trust as being pretty logical, might be indicative of how you and your group come off? And not even to the average joe schmoe, but to someone who knows their shite on the subject.
If you want to make friends and get people behind your cause, you need to explain your position better and why you are taking the course you have. To just dismiss others as wrong and try to continually indoctrinate them is a bad strategy, and has a lot to do with why so many people incorrectly call you names and hate on you so much. Take it as advice holmes, not an argument.
Back to the subject:
One simple fix I can see on the esgl that would mitigate some of the negative impacts of the train would be to restore parking on 3rd where there is still room to do so. That would be small portions between Indiana and Gage where a few spaces could be fit in areas with excess lane space, and would make a world of difference to the small street fronting stores that relied on street parking before the train was built. The second major space alon 3rd where there is gratuitous room is between eastern and the church near downey road. The streetside parking that the residents depended on and the church relied on for overflow service parking along 3rd is gone, yet there is an uneccessary lane that folds back into the other lane for several hundred yards, wher parking for the locals should be. This additional “cut-in” lane is totally unecessary, yet the parking needs along 3rd are pretty significant. So significant that when they were constructing the line the locals and church patrons would park on the construction easement that is now the extra lane I speak of. I thought it would be a no brainer to restore the parking with the extra space, but apparently not.
Another issue is the landscaping, which needs more shade tree canopies, especially those gawdawefull palm trees at the lorena portal and along 3rd that used to be shaded by ficus trees.
Good idea Art for improvements along 3rd – the weird lane change thing is annoying for drivers and seems to be unnecessary. Street parking would be a useful addition to that. As well as trees – why is it that anywhere in LA County when they do new landscaping it’s all palm trees? ELA streets are a bit shy of trees in general, especially the area around there.
One thing that I noticed in comparing the final alignment map on the MTA site with the way the streets are laid out is that the alignment map shows a left turn being allowed from EB 3rd street onto Woods, when in reality it’s signed as no left turn.
I wonder why it changed and when? I suppose they’re just trying to avoid having cars turn left in front of the train, but it’s a definite obstacle for people who live in the area (since otherwise they have to go down to Atlantic or make a right and then a u-turn).
just a quick thought about shading, trees and maintenance. Yes ficus trees are great for shade, but they are thirst trees usually requiring a lot of water, plus there roots tend to tear up sidewalks. Palm trees tend to require less water and there roots dont tear up sidewalks. Not trying to advocate that we only use Palm trees for landscaping, but i think we should be conscious of our environment and use landscaping that is appropriate.
Art and Damien – thank you for going to meetings and bringing real issues up. It’s a lot of work (even if you enjoy it) and I appreciate that you are both out there doing the work.
Re: left turn – maybe people will have to go north on Arizona and cross the freeway to get to Woods.
Very Simple, constructive activities? You mean like going to blogs and harassing Chicanos? That’s all you do.
Art, interesting points, as usual.
Harrassing Chicanos? Good god sometimes the jokes write themselves. Who made you the voice of all Chicanos, Hector?
Regarding Gold Line station landscaping, I agree more shade trees would be a good idea, as long as they are not ficus which tear up sidewalks with their thick roots, or palms which look nice, but offer no shade
@caxcan
quote:
I don’t believe Bob Marley was contradicting himself. Chains on ones feet is a physical action as apposed to freeing ones mind is a spiritual thing.
Caxcan it is all figurative. Bob never had chains on his feet to begin with and even if he did most of his audience didn\’t. As \”freeing one\’s mind\” is to be taken figuratively/spiritually (not the cracking your head open to let your brain fall out) so is the unleashing of \”chains from one\’s feet\”. Good god, we\’re doing remedial Marley here! The first step in getting those figurative chains off of your feet is to free one\’s mind from in this case \”the man\” mentality which is an extension of a slave mentality. I\’m not saying that \”the man\” doesn\’t exist what I\’m saying is that the focus is to usurp \”the man\” before you find yourself in a position where you have to refer to him as \”the man\” and not just as \”a man\” who happens to be……..
Running around videotaping a train that is already built and about to go into revenue service or yelling the irresponsible phrase \”we\’re going to have to go nuclear\” is all part of \”the man\” syndrome.
And sweetheart, I\’m nowhere near part of the status quo if I were why would I be on this blog wasting my time with a bunch of goons like you?(smile) In reality you\’re more of the status quo at least on this blog than I\’ll ever be seeing that the really impo\’tant folks on this blog(you know the ones with the emboldened names)tend to be agreeing with you. Oh well, I think that the prevailing sentiment on this blog regarding transportation equality in particular is backwards and self-destructive but that doesn\’t mean that we can\’t work together in some fashion since I\’m despeeratly assuming all of our end goals are the same.
Oh, one more thing. Marriage Equality imo is a civil right that is being denied to a certain population of our society. Transportation and movement are a civil right as well. These two things are the equals that should be compared not the MODE of transit be it subway, LRT or jitney. Just as not being able to marry in a church or a drive thru Las Vegas chapel (a mode or ways of getting married)is not at the crux of the marriage equality fight.
Art, I would like to talk to you more about getting much more involved in transit equality in particular in this town. And thank you so much for commenting on this board and bringing some sense, knowledge and balance to what was becoming messier than a 3 year olds bday party.
Question for Art: Since I was not living here in LA at the time and can only reference old articles about Zev\’s killing of the Eastside subway what really happened? Where was Molina? Where was the constituency on the Eastside which in such a low turnout election could have easily defeated this prop?
If I might chime in here…
Very Simple, you don’t want me to dig up all of your comments taking swipes at Chicanos, from bashing MEChA to using terms like “gordita indio”, your hatred for raza has been on display here for months.
Your summation that the “jokes write themselves” reveals your inner belief that the Chicano culture in and of itself is a “joke”, to you.
Your sarcastic description of Hector wanting to be a voice for all Chicanos attempts to pass off the notion that most Chicanos actually think like you. Only in Beverly Hills, simple one. I’m a Chicana from the East Side and I can tell you that almost everyone, including myself, thinks like Hector. We’ve got a name for people who think like you, and I’m not even going to say it. All the best.
Very Simple, constructive activities? You mean like going to blogs and harassing Chicanos? That’s all you do.
yes if you don’t agree with them your harassing chicanos
Fallopian,
You spend alot of time revisiting old comments. 40 + comments have been posted and you still comeback to talking about Bob Marley and calling Eastsiders Goons. Get over it, move on.
I never insult people first, I reply.
Go back under the bridge, Troll!
Newsflash to Monica. I was born and raised in the Eastside and happen to not agree with Hector. So what! I am not claiming to speak for any other Chicano and neither should you.
Sorry if I don’t fit your Chicano thought-process ideal. I could care less about some stupid name just because I don’t agree with you
roberto, expressing the same disagreement over and over like a broken record when the point has been noted and including personal insults is harassment.
Per dictionary.com:
ha⋅rass
[huh-ras, har-uhs]
–verb
1. to disturb persistently; torment, as with troubles or cares; bother continually; pester; persecute.
2. to trouble by repeated attacks, incursions, etc., as in war or hostilities; harry; raid.
………….
^^^ Perfectly describes Very Simple’s presence here, and his defenders like you. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are him.
@caxcan
Ahh….come now “caxcan”. You brought up the Marley reference and I was explaining what the man most likely really meant considering it within context. Anyway, playing the victim with me probably won’t work to well as it has with them others, I kinda know too much and what’s more I’ve probably experienced many more “isms” than you could ever bear before hurtling yourself off of the 1st Street bridge.
I’ll repeat: I’m assured that our end goals are the same, so like Art suggested why don’t we find a common area to work on transit equality for our people, the folks who need it the most.
We’re going to have to start a drinking game for every time one of the Chicano bashers in here says they were born and raised on the East Side, like Just B and Very Simple. We’d be shit faced by sundown. Newsflash, Very Simple: Nobody cares that you’re from the East Side. Like I said, we have a name for people like you who grew up on the East Side but feel the need to bash Chicano culture at every turn. We have someone like you in our family. I won’t even say what we call you guys. It’s too fucked up.
Fallopia, who’s playing the victim with you? We’re talking about the people in charge of the rail line, not you. You’re not even in the picture. Tune the drama down just a tad bit. You’re like my homegirl who thinks every fight is over her.
i keep bringing it up because i keep seeing it here, i mention canadian health care and i am chicano bashing and i am against universal healthcare in america when i never mentioned it.
roberto, your attention span matches your grammar. I was talking about Very Simple, and you stuck up for him. You vouched for Very Simple’s insults toward Chicanos. He calls anyone who takes a remotely liberal Chicano view a MEChA member. He once called a local politician an india gordita (meaning fat, dark girl…in a discussion about rail lines! All class.). I wasn’t even talking about you, so stop trying to twist shit.
Damn,I had no idea that Caxcan was going to send his mom to come talk to me, damn I feel like an elementary school principal. So let’s play along…….
Well, since you’re here Ms. Caxcan your son seems to have issues with victimization and has an unhealthy fear of trains. Now the reputation of this school is to teach our students self-fortification and to give them a realistic visual of the world that lies outside for them, well in particular ehmm…black and brown children. He also made a ruckus in class the other day over a Bob Marley song that we played during the children’s naptime and kept claiming that he was a victim much like the Jews of the holocaust and the homosexuals. You could just imagine how that disturbed the other children were by his behaviour.
Now Ms. Caxcan, I’m sure that if we can work together we can steer your boy in the right direction. He nearly pulled my hand out of its socket as we crossed Soto and approached the wonderful new choo choo train that even Sup Molina has said is an asset to our underserved community. I just know that we can work this through because remember, we’re all in this together and we all want the same things such as: a decent job, healthy kids and above all transportation equity. By just looking at you Ms. Caxcan, I just know that we can keep your boy out of prison and help him find a vocational job as soon as he graduates. We can work together Ms. Caxcan, we really can.
Damn, yer all still at it?!? Ha ha! Shouldn’t you all be busy at a meeting or something?
Besides, it turns out the Eastside Extension actually is very safe, because of this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elchavo/3863709370/
Yeh, you’re like an elementary school principal, Fallopia. You’re the mature voice of reason in here (not).
A principal moderates problems, and doesn’t jump into them. You’re more like a 2nd grade drama queen than a principal. But call yourself whatever you like. Afterall, Very Simple calls himself Chicano, and we all know how much of a joke that is.
And here you go with this victimization thing again. People here are talking about the politicians in charge of the rail line. Unless you represent them, it aint your fight. If you’re an East Sider and you disagree with Browne, say so and state your reasons. Then accept the fact that you’ll probably change no one’s mind. That’s life. Now see, I’m acting more like the principal than you are.
Chicano bashing Monica? What the fuck are you talking about! I have never made any sweeping generalizations about Chicanos!
If you want to twist references I have made about *individuals* and apply them to an entire group of people, go ahead. There is a short bus for people like you.
I’ve already given examples of your Chicano bashing comments. Don’t play dumb. Accusing anyone who shows any kind of pride in being a Chicano of being an extremist or a MEChA member is a sweeping generalization. But I’ve noticed you stopped doing that. Now you’re just keeping it “very simple” by calling me an idiot. Or, maybe when called on your obvious agenda you start to back pedal. Other readers can decide.
And your short bus comment is very insulting. Your hateful spirit calls for some class of people, other than wealthy whites, of course, to be insulted. Since you’re back pedaling on insulting Chicanos, the physically and mentally disabled are now your targets of mockery, hence the short yellow bus. Chicanos and Chicanas, like me, will fight back. But the disabled aren’t known for being fighters, so when you need to vent after taking a beat down from people representing an ethnic group…. turning your venom toward the disabled is’ very simple’, isn’t it?
Someone call the Waambulance again!
I’m not gonna bother with you anymore. If you consider blaming everything on the “white man” an example of Chicano “pride,” well have fun with that.
^^^True to form, he defends white people one last time before leaving.
All the best, simple one. You were fun.
Slow your roll homegirl, since when did they start letting chickenheads have computers?
If you must know and if you can muster your hair trigger no ejumahcation ass to read the entirety of the blog you would know that right before you stopped watching your soaps and dragged your ass over to the compudah you would have seen that I was the one fostering a conversation with Art about Sup Molina’s role in the Prop C debacle of 1998….but you don’t hear that. If you would have just actually read my posts you would have seen that I thanked Art for bringing balance to this discussion and at the end of every post henceforth I asked how could we all work together…..but you don’t hear that. I guess because your glaucoma was acting up you couldn’t read that shit, huh? Lay off the greasy food my girl it aint good for you. We got enough of that in our community already.
But whenever you want to have a sensible conversation and talk about transit equity, just lemme know, aiight fly chick!
And yeah, me being a “nobody” that’s cool actually. I’d rather be a nobody and work for the betterment of my community and foster a real conversation meaning a discussion that might even have DISSENTING views and not try to villify everyone who doesn’t agree with me. Calling fellow black and brown people Uncle Tom’s basically because they don’t see the world the same way that you do is weak ma! And you still haven’t spoke about ANY facts concerning transit equity in our hoods!!!! All you’ve done thus far is run your useless trap on shit that was even directed to you. I’m ready to begin a discussion on transit equity in our city but it seems many of you on here are too busy playing cops and robbers and enjoying the hunt after “da man”. Save for a few most of you are too distracted to actually do shit, so shit won’t ever get done. 1998 all over again. Shame, I say.
Let’s do this Monica. You drag yourself back in front of the tv and watch your soaps along with Maurey “who’s my baby’s daddy”, Sally Jesse and Tyra and don’t say shit else to me unless you want to do some real talk.
Cool it with the insults, okay. This isn’t la.curbed.
To Fallopian,
You have way to much time on your hands.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
You said, “The Eastside dropped the ball……sorry.”
What the f**k are all those dots suppose to mean?
Giving us the customer service-smile-pause-shrug sorry.
You said, “The last thing our community needs is a narcissist who \”just loves to upset the status quo\”. ”
Why does disrupting the status quo bother you so much?
By the looks of it, your agenda is much different than that from many resident Eastsiders.
FOR THE RECORD: THIS IS ALL MUCH BIGGER THAN YOU OR ME!
Don’t waste our time with stupid stories. Grow up.
Art,
I’m not an environmental planner. I am an activist and a legal and political strategist. If you don’t understand my rhetoric and my group’s actions it probably because you’re seeing it through the wrong lenses – that of an environmental planner, and not an activist and strategist.
And to be frank, hombre, you’re not my target audience. Sorry to say man, environmental planners from the eastside aren’t the decision-makers in all of this. In fact, I’ve garnered a few laughs from folks when I tell them that some in the “transit community” take issue with the velocity of our rhetoric and actions. Those laughs aren’t coming from people within the Fix Expo circle, but elected officials – people who know how difficult it is for organizations to “fight City Hall,” especially those with no money and based in areas with limited political influence.
There are two groups, and only two groups that have been able to convince MTA to put hundreds of millions of dollars into projects for poor/minority communities and began without a single political supporter. The fact that these two groups are the most demonized by the “transit community” speak to their total ignorance of political organizing.
Our position is clearly laid out for anyone who dares to read our statements or website. And any and every elected official and member of the media we have sat down with knows our “Ask,” why we’re making it and equally as important, the lengths we will go if our request is not fulfilled. Our actions, rhetoric, coalition and strategy are entirely understandable given the political environment, which we operate within.
And yes I will continue lecturing on environmental justice, because art, this isn’t a one-on-one conversation, but rather a forum, filled with people passing by who have no idea what it is or the process which is necessary to adequately address it.
Sorry Art, I have no fear of my rhetoric or statements being inaccurately characterized as, what did you say, “rail fighting.” In fact, if some didn’t inaccurately characterize our effort that way, I probably would be reduced to talking about the landscaping around the line, instead of bringing the political pressure to bear to get an agency to appropriate hundreds of millions more into projects in South LA, money they NEVER thought they would have to.
Yes, introspection is needed on your part. It might help you in your own backyard. I’m just saying hombre…
Jon,
We’ve never stated that the entire portion between Figueroa and Vermont is underground. In fact, we went to bat rather strongly for extending the trench to Vermont as the first part of the Expo Phase 1 grade separation project. See our powerpoint here: http://fixexpo.blogspot.com/2009/04/our-campaign-for-stimulusmeasure-r.html
We share the safety concerns about the crossings, especially during large Coliseum events, traffic impacts, and the redundancy in stations. (See the powerpoint, where the Trousdale and Vermont station are combined into one station between Watt Way and Menlo.)
That said, the undercrossing at Figueroa is where the overwhelming majority of USC pedestrian traffic is located. Rarely if ever do students cross at Pardee Way, Trousdale or Vermont. They’re all going to the parking structure and student housing located on/near the southeast corner of Figueroa. That’s not to say no ‘SC students use the other crossings or that they don’t run risk of being hit at those and other crossings; they do. Just that USC’s version of Farmdale, Western and Denker were taken care of with grade separation. Now the process that led to the undercrossing is no where near as clear as some would have people believe. The simple explanation is at some locations MTA is willing to be honest about the traffic impact and operational limitations than they are at others, which is largely dependent upon how hard a politician/stakeholder group pushes back. This is one where there was significant push back and compromises were made that otherwise weren’t made in other areas.
And again, our environmental justice contention is with the portion of the track in Culver City vs. South LA, not so much USC, although clearly within the community there is a salty taste in many people’s mouths from the undercrossing at Figueroa.
Re: Santa Monica, there have been desires to redevelop Colorado Blvd for quite some time. I’m just now coming up to speed about it. With it you can understand many of the city’s actions. Because their rhetoric totally does not fit.
Fallopia,
Im sorry it took me a while to respond, I am very busy at work and have a newborn baby. I want t make my response into a post at the busbench, but havent so yet but will post the link here whenever the hell I can do it.
The corruption and shoddy construction of the hollywood and DTLA segments for the redline subway created a public outcry for blood. Contractor Tutor Saliba got the project thru shady means, and used wooden columns rather than steel beams which caused the streets on Hollywood and Broadway to sink (u can still see the damage on hollywood blvd today near cherokee) amongst other half assed ways to save money that eventually came back to them.
When all these allegations occured, and businesses in these areas began to close, political leaders such as Zev Yaroslovsky used this climate of discontent at how the rail line was being built to gain political points and pander to reactionaryism. That’s when Zev’s law was passed, as well as the Waxman bill, i belive there is also something that dictates a rail line along chandler had to be grade seperated (hense the orange line busway).
Everybody got on the accountability bandwagon in light of the horrible joke the subway was becoming, Im not sure where supervisor molina stood but i would guess she agreed with the mass hysteria, she is a political animal and going against the tide would hvae not been politically advantageous. Either way, the entire county voted in favor of banning local funding for subway, in east and west LA due to the panic caused by the tutor saliba debacle.
Unfortunately, the next phase of the redline was going to extend off this intiial trunk line. From ym memory they include the east la subway to whittier, a crenshaw heavy rail extension, the redline down wilshire and a valley redline extension. They all got scrapped because the local funds vanished (the initial subway costs also shot up greatly), which laid the frame work for today’s situation.I would say though, that the public outcry from teh subway mess was manipulated by political opportunists, with terrible results. The public recieved a lot of scare tactics and misinformation at the time, and wrongly equated “no subways” with accountability. I genuinely doubt most people understood the damage those bills created, and that the bulk of voters wanted to solely stop subways. But at the time subways in LA meant corrpution, high costs and possible damage to major activity strips. And people got so burned that they went for it.
After the shitstorm and fallout from all the subway bans and bills, communities had to find alternatives (orange line) to rail or gather funding on their own (gold line to pasadena). Policymakers up thru the Riordan and Hahn admins wanted a busway to serve the east LA community, but local leaders dissuaded them inbehind the scene meetings by basically taking them thru east la and showing them how dense the area is and how dangerous and inadequate an at grade busway would be.
In order to bypass the no local funds for subways rule of Zev’s law, the proponents of the esgl created an alignment that mainly was at-grade. Local funds were put into the non subway portion of the esgl, and the federally matchign money is what funded the 1.8 mile subway tunnel thru boyle heights. In order to put a rail line thru east LA that was primarilly at-grade, the alignment had to miss major deesination points and corridors that are too dense and narrow. The train is placed along the least dense and vibrant portions of 1st and 3rd streets (with the exception of the mercadito area they could not avoid), passing thru cemetaries and more residential portions of the 1st and 3rd street corridors.
Fallopia, was that who emailed me with the bitchinatutu address. the wording of the link alarmed me, but would like to meet up if you are serious, as well as anyone else. Im all for positive transit advocacy in my barrio and all of working class LA, and would love to connect too others likeminded. I view the super’s anger as something we can channel into fighting for more transit investment into east and southeast la, hopefully. As a transit activist who grew up in a brown beret household, Im a more interested in optimistic advocacy. I spent too much of my young like stirring up shit and fighting the system, i think playing nice is more pragmatic.
Thank you Art for that quite objective accounting of what REALLY happened in the late 90′s. I think you also forgot the BRU’s smelling blood in the water and forcing upon all of us the now infamous MTA Consent Decree. All too often we get caught up in fighting against our own interests out of ignorance and miseducation. My fight is to get our community on the pro-active side of the ball(like attending the Crenshaw meetings w/ overflow crowds) not merely and always reactive like running behind and videotaping an LRT and its supposed shoddiness on the eve of its opening.
Art I hear in your words the heartbreak and pain you have seen snatched and dallyed away by not seeing the bigger picture. But there are many people who have a TRUE vested interest in the transformational power of transit and what it can do to lessen the weight of class/race isms that we face. Too many that have big mouths are working on a personal agenda. Or worse, they miss the forest for the trees and end up hobbleling entire projects that ultimately benefit our people first and foremost in this city.
I hear the overwhelming sincerity in your voice Art and I believe in your present direction and would be very grateful to join you regarding transit in any way that you see fit.
The best to you Art and I hope to be talking to you soon.
Damien Goodmon
I understand that you have safety issues at certain crossings but why do you kill the line that everyone will use? You think that we are stupid enough not to have at-grade crossings? Technically, you just called not only the Dorsey High teens, but all the teens in the city of LA retared. Retarted that we can’t supposedly tell if a train is coming or not. Retarted that that we can’t tell when to cross or not. We aren’t stupid to see a train is coming. If we were then God help us. So just stop this stupid fighting. And if you are saying Culver City students got special treatment, well, they didn’t. The nearest school is about a half-mile to a mile away (Hamilton High). About the Red Line extensions, the Westside Extension is a revived project that was put on hold for bans that it had on Hyde Park for methane gas.