It Can’t Happen Here !

Three people including a ten-year-old girl were shot in their Southern Arizona home by vigilante Minuteman racists. The little girl and her father died. If this happened to a black family in Alabama or a Jewish family anywhere in the USA what would be the consequences?
With the US economy in shambles and unemployment at record levels will the Mexican American population be the whipping boy for the countries ills? Will the FBI and Justice Dept now take a second look at these right wing militias and racist goons who seem to be turning more violent as their frustration with an African American President and a more multi-cultural society turns to rage and terrorism.

From the New York Times today:

New Border Fear: Militia Violence By JESSE McKINLEY and MALIA WOLLAN
“I had to take an oath, and part of the oath was that I couldn’t eat Mexican food,” he said. “That’s when red flags went up all over for me. That seemed like prejudice.”

Minutemen American Defense, a Washington State-based offshoot of the Minutemen movement, in which citizens roam the border looking for people crossing into the country illegally. Former members describe the group’s leader, Shawna Forde, 41, as having anti-immigrant sentiments that are extreme, at times frightening, even to people accustomed to hard-line views on border policing.”

44 thoughts on “It Can’t Happen Here !

  1. I used to argue with some of those clowns before on the net years back, members would always be joking about how some members have killed illegals crossing and dumped the bodies numerous times. They were even people turned off by this behavior who’d complain about such atrocities to them, but would never go to the authrities in their anti-illegal zeal. They’d joke about shooting at, yelling at and abusing and teasing the folks crossing the border repeatedly, beyond their 1950s era racist tyrades.

    Oh yeah. but theyre concerned about people following the law. im sure they follow jaywalkers around and are protesting white collar crime just as fervently.

    Not too long ago there was a (fairly unreported in the media0 story about how the governator has been going around telling people to stop blaiming illegal immigratns for the state budget crisis because that assumption is outright incorrect and dangerous, he even alluded to the behavior of the anit-illegal crowd being reminiscent of the Nazi’s scorn for the Jews. Guess what the comments were for the article right after? Nonstop racist tyrades on illegal, how the governator is in the pockets of latinos (yeah because his record has been in our best interest otherwise, sarcasm), and a continuation of the racist and factually incorrect statements.

    It appears that america did not just drop racism off of its prevalent behaviors, parents just closed the doors and taught their kids the hatred in a more passive aggressive manner. Im not dumb enough to stereotype millions of people off a few hundred thousand rotten apples (if not more than that), but there sure are a lot of outright racist people coming from one demographic.

  2. Shawna Forde is a Minutewoman and I think that in itself is a very interesting component. Not saying women should have more empathy, but I just think it’s worth mentioning.

    In general though I am very surprised at the lack of interest in regards to these kinds of stories that are pretty heinous and seem to reach back to another era, well not another era, but a repeat of things that keep happening over and over again.

  3. we finally have a colored president but we still have plenty of hate groups in America. what’s even worse is there are some self loathing latinos in the minutemen. I remember telemundo interviewed some of them. I just dont understand people sometimes.

  4. You would think that people so concerned with legality would be aware that murder is illegal… But then you never hear about the Minutemen going after British or Canadian “illegals”…

  5. Art, Browne, I agree, there seems to be a new disrespect in the air that many think is socially acceptable. The caricatures and the coded hate speech, the many times behind closed doors, racism directed toward our African American President, popular music and movies use of the N word and W, G, and Beaner expletives, the killing and deaths of people who are Mexican American or Mexican nationals that is either not mentioned or is a footnote in the news for a minute or so.
    Even though the murders of the Arizona family by Minutemen types (allegedly!) was in the NY Times it was eye opening that there isn’t a word about it in the LA Times even though it is the major news source for the city with the largest population of people of Mexican heritage in the USA. But it’s nothing new to Mexican Americans, who are used to being the invisible people.

    Apio, it’s apparent to me and many Mexicans that legality has nothing to do with the Minutemen and other hate groups, it’s all about sharing power with “non-whites” and living in a multi-cultural society.
    Same thing with the “English Only” baloney, these are smokescreens that allow racists to vent their anger and fear without being labeled as racists and xenophobes.

  6. I went to some of the anti-nativist protests in Baldwin Park and other areas of the SGV several years back. These groups are mostly not fascist, but, there’s are some people in them who are involved in fascist or nazi-type racist groups. The racists use these more moderate groups as an organizing platform – they try to recruit, and they also use anti-immigrant events to help mobilize their own members.

    There’s a code of silence in these nativist groups when it comes to racist fascists. When the fascists volunteer to help, the media-friendly “anti-illegal-immigrant” spokespeople look the other way.

    All this stuff is documented on websites and in photos (their own photos, even). An activist from Santa Ana, Naui, has been documenting a lot of it on video for years. We can’t count on the LA Times to tell the truth about this: they don’t want to expose the issue for what it is and alienate readers. So, it’s up to activists to document and reveal things on sites like Indymedia, Youtube, personal blogs, and other internet outlets.

  7. I think the interesting thing is that in general is that while we have an African-American president and a woman leading the Minutemen yet that doesn’t change the dynamics for classism, sexism and racism in this country.

    The root cause of all of this is economics.

    You can have an African-American president and still have a racist country.

    You can have a woman lead an organization and have it be completely ruthless, pointless and violent.

    It’s a whole new dynamic on race and gender for America.

    Maybe we can move into a whole new conversation that doesn’t label individuals, but labels the power structure.

    The conversation we should have been having in the first place, but of course if we label the power structure then certain ways of life (making your money from corporate entities, free markets, blind consumerism) could truly be labeled as morally wrong and I think the problem is that most people want the opportunity to wear the boots. Most people want their to drive their Prius and have their sweatshop clothes too!! The progressive movemement among progressives is a joke. Keeping it too real is unreaasonable. The right will stick to their guns and kill people, the left will make a documentary that they show to five of their friends from Stanford. I’m not saying we should get guns, because to me that is some rightwing insanity, but we shold at least be true to the movement in our daily lives, you know make some sacrifices.

    My issue with the left is that it’s filled with selfish jerks who talk a good game but do nothing real and the reason probably is most of them have the goal of getting grants from the Rockefeller Foundation. Can’t be too crazy if you want a grant.

    You know the reason that MLK was killed wasn’t owing to his fight against racism, it was owing to his fight on classism.

    The power structure loves the race and gender conversation. It’s a symptom conversation it avoids the real root of the problem. Ten of the same families owning everything.

    Browne

  8. It’s been almost 50 yrs since the civil rights movement and here we are again. Another generation continuing the legacy of hate, but more importantly, a new generation of fighters, that include myself, in countering these misconceptions and holding people responcible for their actions. I can tell you from experience that things are only gonna heat up in the coming months and years. Speaking for myself, this is a war that’s been in the making for
    years and now it’s at it height. None the less, I am not alone in this fight. We are ready. We are making progress and we will help make things right and show the world its racist reflection. C/S

  9. Good point Browne, down deep these social and racial struggles are always based on economics and materialism.
    And when times get tough and jobs are scarce then the powers that be turn against the cheap labor pool (usually minorities, wherever in the world), and use the old “divide and conquer” scam to pit working people against themselves, usually using racism, xenophobia and nativism as tools to scapegoat a selected group and class. It’s an old old strategy that seems to work every time. MLK was tolerated as a spokesman for racial equality and civil rights but the minute he moved into the realm of representing all working people and had the temerity to represent and support the strike by the Memphis Sanitation Workers, and started speaking up for all workers rights he was attacked as a Commie agitator, provoking class warfare, and was quickly assassinated.
    The 1% who make up the wealthy monopoly capitalist class, and their lackeys, always scream foul when someone points out the gross inequities of economics used to prop up these supply siders and robber barons.
    They like to keep it quiet and on the down low between themselves, but revert to screaming about class warfare when put in the spotlight by someone, and always use the old divide and conquer trick that is based on racism and xenophobia.
    Hitler did it with his “Brown Shirts” and beer hall butt buddies and the racist “Minutemen” types fall right into the same category.

  10. Gabriel, that depends on your personal “give and take” philosophy, but as a matter of fact Hitlers Brown-shirt thugs consisted of a large contingent of homosexual members, and the Nazi party uniforms with all the black leather, knee length boots and such were designed by Herman Goering who was a homosexual who liked to dress up in garish medieval hunting outfits, togas, and feathered boas around his black leather military attire.
    Go figure?

  11. Interesting discussion going on.
    Don Quixote: I just want to clarify that my earlier comment was intended sarcastically. I know that groups like the Minutemen are only interested in “legality” to the extent that it can serve their racism.
    Also while it is true that certain Nazis were homosexuals, the party as a whole had an official anti-homosexual line that, like their anti-Semitic line included mass executions of homosexuals in concentration camps. In the US today, the extreme right seems to follow this official line rather than the closeted practice of certain Nazis.

  12. Right on Apio! We can see the same hypocrisy in the USA today as the Nazi’s practiced during their reign of terror. These types, even though Gay themselves hide in their closets and push forward an anti Gay agenda that is not only hypocritical but anti democratic and cross’s the line again and again in regard to “Separation of Church and State” and freedom from religion.

    The anti Gay Gay hypocrisy by the right wing is nothing new if not astounding,
    Roy Cohn, Sen. Joseph McCarthy’s hatchet man and a virulent anti Gay proponent ended up being outted as a closet homosexual who died of AIDS.
    Florida Congressman Mark Foley, a huge proponent of “family values” and anti gay rhetoric busted as a creepy Gay predator who came on forcefully and continually to his young male “Page’s”,
    Sen. Larry Craig of Idaho, a right wing stooge and another family values guy busted for hustling men in the airport restroom,
    Florida Congressman Bob Allen, anti Gay marriage, anti Gay rights, family values guy, busted in a restroom in a public park trying to give $20 to a black undercover cop, said he was afraid of black men (also very telling), and was willing to get down on his knees to protect himself.
    Reverend Ted Haggard, head of a Colorado multi thousand member church and who was President George Bush’s advisor on family values who was outted paying for homosexual sex and drugs with a male gay prostitute.
    And the litany of anti gay, anti gay marriage, family values, and bible thumpers from the right wing who don’t practice what they preach seems to grow weekly. Besides Senator Vitter from Louisiana who likes hookers to diaper him up we now have phony Senator Ensign of Nevada, and the “marriage is a sacred man-woman agreement from God” loudmouth from South Carolina Senator Sanford who spent taxpayers money and two weeks in Argentina with his internet squeeze, (was it really a woman?)

    The right wing has a long history of attacks and persecution on Gay people while trying to keep themselves locked up in the closet.

    Top Five Republican Gay Sex Scandals » Badmouth
    –Jay LenoIn the same vein, badmouth.net has theTop 5 Republican Gay Sex Scandals. Oh the hilarity ensues on this one! Videos accompany each contender: Mark …
    http://www.badmouth.net/top-five-republican-gay-sex-scandals/

  13. HE EARNED THOSE KNEE PADS
    Yes, Sen. Larry Craig, another right wing stooge and still yet another “family values” guy busted for hustling men in airport restrooms … Well folks, at least he can say, that he did it behind closed doors!?!? What a guy. What a naughty naughty… very naughty naughty.. naughty guy!

  14. Browne, I agree with you completely. I did not see the racism 10 years ago that I’m seeing today. As the economy gets worse, people naturally turn on each other. That’s the magic of the wealthy class. They know they’ll never be blamed, and all they have to do is label the few people who do blame them as radicals. But I have to believe that the past two national elections (’06 and ’08) are a sign that things are heading the other direction. True, what you said; A lot of these “Democrats” are really fence riders that don’t have the balls to impose any real progressive change (health care), but you can see by these past two elections that at least the people are starting to put the blame a little higher on the pecking order. 5 years ago the “enemy within” (thank you, FoxNews) was Michael Moore. Today, it’s Bernie Madoff. We’re moving in the right direction, at least in that regard. Unfortunately, we’re heading in the wrong direction with so many other things, including what both you and Don Quixote have brought to our attention.

  15. Homophobic people argue that homophobia is not rooted in their inability to deal with their own homosexual feelings, while they keep proving otherwise with their own behavior.

  16. No mention by anyone that Flores was involved in the marijuana business. Apparently, racism wasn’t the only motive. I wouldn’t go feeling sorry for a guy like Flores who put his wife and innocent daughter in such a deadly position. This Bush guy, however, is a real piece of chit.

  17. Yea Rob, I have seen this overreaction by some people who absolutely freak if a Gay person gets near them or God forbid, touches them, Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
    Hmmmmmm, he’s definitely got tendencies man, big time overreaction by running out onto the freeway into traffic, screaming at the top of his lungs, when Ralph the drag queen hugged him innocently.
    The vatos are all thinking the same thing about the dude now, he got tendencies ese.

  18. Bill F, WTF! Are you some kind of apologist for the Minutemen racists? No Grifa was found in Flores home by the murderers and racists, Flores didn’t have a record of drug dealing and even if he did does the murder of a man and a 10 year girl even the score? Get the fuck out of here with your racism dude, the culprits and criminals were the minutemen vigilantes pure and simple, no if’s, but’s, or what if’s, these are stone racist murderers who wrap themselves in the American Flag.
    Patriotism is the last bastion of racists and scoundrels.

  19. D.Q. writes
    “Patriotism is the last bastion of racists and scoundrels.”

    ********************

    I didn’t realize loving American and being patriotic makes me racist. A little radical don’t you think ?

  20. Gabriel, loving America and being patriotic does not make you racist. Constantly taking the side of the Minutemen, however…

  21. I’m not sure I see where any comment here has come close to “taking the side of the Minutemen”. They’re obviously a radical bunch of wackos. Rob’s criticism of Gabriel’s comment seems almost as radical. Maybe it was failure to communicate?

  22. Radical would be the actions and philosophy of the Minutemen racists and their minions who would blame the victim for his childs death at the hands of these numbnuts.

  23. bolinas,

    Gabriel insinuated that the Minutemen are “patriots”. So, your criticism of my comment is actually what’s radical. Or, perhaps, a failure in the communication process. And why are you guys hurling the term radical around as if it’s an insult anymore?

  24. Someone goes into a person’s house shoots and kills them and their kid and you try to do the, “lets be reasonable about this, maybe he had drugs.”

    If we’re talking about “radical” in the bad way trying to come up with an argument that a person who hangs out with the aryan nation is just misunderstood is pretty fucking radical in the bad way, far to the other planet insanity type of radical.

    There is nothing that justifies killing children. This is America, not saying that in other places it’s ok, but we don’t kill children in America. That’s off limits and a little girl, even during the lynching days of the 1930s no one lynched little black girls, so if you want to look at it that way the Minutemen are some radical, antiamerican mother f*****rs who need to have the govt go in to their organization and take care of business like they do with all the other terrorist groups.

    Where is Homeland Security? This group is obviously a terrorist threat.

    What if a group of Latinos went into some white person’s house and killed their kid, killed a little white girl and they were on record stating they hated white people? What do you think would be happening right now? Everyone would be getting round up, the gov’t would sort out what happened later.

    Browne (radical in the good way)

  25. “radical” = Nixon term brought back briefly by the right during the post 9/11 Bush era. Only right wing pundits and law enforcement use the term, anymore. But I’m not making any assumptions, bolinas and gabriel.

  26. DQ, did you see that HBO documentary about Ted Haggard? This guy was kicked out of Colorado by the church, so he left, and he’s traveling all over the country looking for people to let him and his family (with about 3 kids, if I remember) stay with them. Mind you…he was kicked out of Colorado..by the church! Not the state, or any legal order. He can come back anytime he wants and nobody can do shit. He still owns his home in Colorado and won’t live there because, again, the church says he can’t. He won’t sell it because he believes the church will reinstate him eventually. Talk about radical beliefs!

  27. Naw Rob, I didn’t see it but I have a hard time watching anything with Ted Haggard in it, he has a certain creepy ass quality that makes my skin crawl.
    And talking about creepy how about SC Gov Sanford? Another guy that sends the needle off the creep factor machine.
    Some Argentino got the emails to his squeeze (probably a blackmail setup), and they are being shown all over the Internet, yikes! Got this off the “ick factor” blog

    “Two, mutual feelings …. You have a particular grace and calm that I adore. You have a level of sophistication that so fitting with your beauty. I could digress and say that you have the ability to give magnificent gentle kisses, or that I love your tan lines or that I love the curve of your hips, the erotic beauty of you holding yourself (or two magnificent parts of yourself) in the faded glow of the night’s light – but hey, that would be going into sexual details…”

    Oh Brother!

  28. Hey Browne, you don’t need to explain yourself. You are what you are. I my self love radical things. It shows an evolution of the human mind. Keep thinking outside the box people.
    As far as these minutemen. It shows they are reacting to social pressure (our chess moves) rather than thinking 7 moves (generations) ahead. We control the center of the board. Keep the pressure, don’t get caught off guard and don’t react. Continue as planned. Educate RAZA.

  29. radical” = Nixon term brought back briefly by the right during the post 9/11 Bush era. Only right wing pundits, law enforcement and surfers use the term.

  30. Why do you have to copy and paste my comment and then modify it, las pinas? That’s a little rude, not to mention trollish. Is Cuca Racha back? Anyhow, yes, the term was also often used in the ’80s as a compliment. “How rad!”. Thanks for enlightening me.

  31. Radical has many definitions.

    I would disagree, that “radical” is only used by law enforcement, right wing pundits, and surfers. It is a word that has been around just as long as the english language, maybe longer. Loosely, I define it as extreme quick change. There are many occations when I do not want to say, “That was a very extreme quick change in your part.”, I would just say,”That was radical of you.” I am neither a right wind pundit, law enforcement, or surfer (although I do surf on occation).

    Shout out to Menoman!!! One of the best sound systems in The Eastside.

    I know Menoman is on another post. The one about the super pinatas, but I’m trying to hook him up with some “jales”.

  32. Just a follow up on this sad story, it seems that one of these racist, xenophobe, Minutemen “Bush” will also be arraigned in the State of Washington for the stabbing murder of a “Hispanic” homeless man.
    Real patriots and keepers of the flame these Minutemen, stab to death some poor homeless man and then follow it up with the murder of a 9 year old girl and her father.

    But it seems that not all “Americans” find fault with these xenophobe racist Minutemen.
    A commentor on the story from the Dallas Morning News:

    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
    “The Minutemen movement is supurb. The Democrats who support the illegal alien takeover of our country have and are, doing everything they can to discredit the patriots who are doing the job that border patrol would be doing if the politicians had any damn guts and patriotism. It is terrible that the people in this “rogue” group will now be associated with the supurb men and women who have given of their time, money and expertise to try and keep the U.S.A. for Americans. I hope the Minuteman movement survives and increases; otherwise, there will soon be no U.S.A”
    ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????!

    Instead of a trial it would be nice if they dropped these clowns off in any one of a number of LA Eastside neighborhoods, all dressed up in their “recon” camo uniforms, bets could be made on how long they would last.

    But that would be wrong, we believe in the justice system on the Eastside, por Dios Santo!

    Tucson Region
    ARIVACA MURDER CASE
    3 arraigned in killings of girl, 9, father
    Prosecutors have 60 days to decide whether to pursue the death penalty
    By Kim Smith
    ARIZONA DAILY STAR
    Tucson, Arizona | Published: 06.30.2009

  33. The Eastside knows how to take care of unwanted folks. Richard Ramirez was caught in the eastside by eastsiders. They beat the s**t out of him.

  34. “gabrielito”, “billy bob”, and “mama bolinas”, you are racists. You three panzones obviously don’t eat much in the way of fruits & veggies that the migrant workers pick, yet you have such xenophobic hate for them.

    It’s no longer the white man’s world.

    Let me quote Fred G. Sanford, “You BIG dummies!”

  35. Caxcan, what I meant to say I guess is that only right wingers and cops throw the term “radical” around as if it means criminal or enemy of the state, etc. It’s funny that there are still people who do it.

  36. DQ, a lot of those comments at newspaper web sites are just trolls looking to get a rise. I used to post at a couple of local ones until I realized the comments sections are just a zoo. You have a lot of people posting cruel comments and I notice they only have 1 comment overall. It’s a few people who keep re-registering new screen names. The papers, or whatever company operates these sites, just let it all slide. The more hits, the merrier, far as they’re concerned. It’s just another sign of how desperate the newspaper industry is. When they first started doing these comments sections they used to weed out the trolls. Now they’re just watching the hit meter and begging advertisers to buy space. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of these racist trolls are employees of the paper.

    The actions and behavior alone of the Minutemen are suspicious enough. They should be watched. If we’re going to have a homeland security department, it should cover the whole spectrum, not just potential terrorists with brown skin and Arab names.

  37. So I have noticed Rob, but maybe if they keep it up this thread will hit 100 and Al Desmadre will pop for some tacos

  38. Minutemen are poseurs supreme.

    Minutemen are prevaricators and fabricators. Fibbers and storytellers.

    Minutemen are usurpers and falsifiers. With no conscience.

    Minutemen blacken, calumniate, and asperse, also, with no conscience.

    Minutemen misrepresent and invent.

    Minutemen are reactionary, and do not contribute anything.

    Minutemen untruths are intended to mislead and to be taken as fact.

    Minutemen resort to bald misstatements of fact, and to deceptive half-truths.

    Minutemen are the ultimate posters who create subsequent comments as though there is a conversation.

    Minutemen are being watched.

  39. just for the record, according to wikipedia, the quote, attributed to Samuel Johnson (1709-1784), is actually “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” it’s quoted in “The Life of Samuel Johnson,” by James Boswell.

    the full excerpt from the book is, “Patriotism having become one of our topicks, Johnson suddenly uttered, in a strong determined tone, an apophthegm, at which many will start: ‘Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.’ But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest.”

  40. A couple more gay fascists.

    Ernst Rohm, who was a significant brown shirt leader, killed by Hitler.

    “Jeff Gannon”, a Marine who joined the White House Press Corp as a “reporter”. He was a gay prostitute and right-wing echo chamber choirboy.

  41. Thanks for the clarification on Samuel Johnson’s historical and perceptive quote jimmy tumors, I did indeed paraphrase Johnson’s sage adage with
    “Patriotism is the last bastion of racists and scoundrels.” apologies to the late Samuel Johnson but due to the devolution of some people, namely the racist xenophobic Minutemen and their ilk, I felt that the addition of the term racist was in this case apropos, hopefully one of these days we can go back to just using the original quote, “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” as you so graciously provided.

    Santiago, thank you for your lazerbeam truth and prose, especially the first line,”
    “Minutemen are poseurs supreme.”

    Alienation, it would take the likes of Freud, Jung, and Judge Judy, to understand the weird overlap of Gay Nazis and Fascist’s who hate and bash out of the closet Gay people.

    An example of this weird affliction can be heard on the radio daily, a good article in Political Articles .Net examines this phenomenon,

    “Rush’s divorces and his disdain of females, usually characterized by outbursts of disgusting sexual slurs and gender-bashing, on his radio talk-shows, suggests that this man is not really into women, and unconsciously blames them for his sexual quagmire.
    Rush usually refers to women derogatively as — FEMINAZIS!. Some consider use of the term “feminazi” ironic because feminists and other political dissenters were among the victims of Nazi concentration camps and Nazi work camps. Gloria Steinem said in an interview, “Hitler came to power against the strong feminist movement in Germany, padlocked the family planning clinics, and declared abortion a crime against the state–all views that more closely resemble Rush Limbaugh’s.” Many prominent German feminists like Helene Stďcker, Trude Weiss-Rosmarin and Clara Zetkin were forced to flee Nazi Germany. [SOURCE: Wikipedia]

    “Democrats will bend over, grab the ankles, and say, ‘Have your way with me’

    Read the whole article and consider

    ‘Bend Over And Touch Ankles’ — Is Rush Limbaugh A ‘Closet’ GAY FASCIST?” to African-Americans and gays. — Rush Limbaugh

  42. i think “religion” can and should also be included in that paraphrase as well….

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