Highland Park in the NY Times
by chimatli
These residents don’t count when the New York Times is discussing Highland Park “culture.”
It’s been making the rounds, The New York Times did an article on the new “culture” of Highland Park and you can guess who and what culture they are referring to. The vast majority of Highland Park residents will never read this article nor would they care about it but I can imagine the boutiques and gastropubs featured and interviewed couldn’t be more thrilled about this kind of validation.
Funny though, Highland Park has always been a place of community activity and art. Back in the 90s, it was ground zero for the Chicano cultural renaissance due to spaces like (De)Center, The Popular Resource Center (bands playing here: Quetzal, Ozomatli and Rage Against the Machine), pirate radio station Radio Clandestina, community garden La Culebra and the wonderful Arroyo Bookstore. The area was buzzing with art shows, concerts, poetry, political events and other happenings.
In the early 2000s, a new wave of community inspired spaces sprung up, most notably, Ave 50 Gallery, Rock Rose Art Gallery and Flor y Canto Centro Comunitario. And again, there continued to be ongoing and prolific examples of locally generated events and happenings. But according to media like The New York Times, Highland Park really didn’t get culture until we got places like (the poorly named) Society of the Spectacle, The York gastropub and “priced-out artists, actors and writers” moved to the neighborhood. Well, I call bullshit on this.
Here’s a small bit from the article:
But few would ever confuse Highland Park for a cultural district. Until now. What was once a sleepy strip of garish 99-cent stores and auto parts shops is turning into a thriving neighborhood of cool restaurants and boutiques that draw young trendsetters in skinny jeans, flannel shirts and Converse high tops.
You want to know what my first reaction after reading this was? It was “fuck you.” Yeah, it’s a visceral and emotional response. I’ve spent a good chunk of my adult life working on community projects in Highland Park and have watched how folks who live here for two months suddenly are considered the saviors of the neighborhood (by what? owning a boutique?) while those who have been here for the long haul are hardly recognized or are assumed to be part of the nobody masses who prefer “garish 99 cent stores” over hip cafes.
It reminds me of a much too frequent, recurring conversation that would happen when I was volunteering at Flor y Canto:
New yuppie residents walk in the door
Them: We just moved to the neighborhood from Hollywood/West LA/Silver Lake (take your pick)
Me: Great, welcome! (Still feeling friendly)
Them: Yeah this is a great neighborhood!
Me: I know
Them: It’s a shame no one knows about it
(My blood begins to boil)
Me: No one knows about it? What do you call all those people on the street outside? This is a very densely populated area.
Them: (chuckles) Oh, you know what I mean…
Me: No…
Them: I mean…(and then from here they’d begin rambling, stammering and back pedaling so they didn’t seem like jerks who thought brown and poor folks were nobodies)
Here’s the thing, no matter how much they may try to re-write our history and impose ideas of culture on us, Highland Park is not Silver Lake. It’s an old neighborhood of Chicanos, immigrants and working-class White folks that have some of the fiercest neighborhood pride in the Los Angeles area. This area is deep with tradition, culture and dynamic energy. In the end, it doesn’t really matter what the New York Times writes or their perception of our neighborhood. However, I would warn some of these new businesses to be more aware of the area they moved into and not be dismissive of the neighborhood created by long-time residents. Or to put it more bluntly, the way someone from Highland Park might say: They better recognize!
See El Chavo’s piece on Highland Park gentrification.
Longtime resident and artist J Michael Walker also has an interesting take on the article. (h/t LA Observed)
Excellent blog on day-to-day happenings in Highland Park: 90042
Humorous local group 8-Bit rap about scenesters invading Highland Park in HLP.
Comments(123)
I have often had the conversations about gentrification of “well doesn’t it make it look better? What’s so bad about all those new art galleries?” Well my answer is that NO it doesn’t LOOK better…it just makes this place look like EVERY other place that has been gentrified.
Some people have this idealized version of the city and would like to distribute it virally. And I find most art galleries and just IVORY TOWERS for but a few. Frankly, the only reason I go to art show is for the free wine…and even that is not that big of a draw.
Growing up in Lincoln Heights & El Sereno I’ll admit that I’ve always been jealous of Highland Park’s row of stores on Figueroa and how it looked. It seemed so LIVELY and FUN (they have a movie theater!); so to read that the NYTimes thinks that it has only RECENTLY become “vibrant” is unnerving at best. Passingly by York & Ave 51 I saw whole groups of people gathered around art galleries drinking on the sidewalk. And of course because of the politics of class, these folks will probably NOT be busted for drinking in public as some of my crusty-punk friends back in the day.
To put it in the words of Tupac Shakur : “they don’t give a f*ck about us!”
p.s. How I wish Flor Y Canto was still around and not the Bike Oven…I’d even settle for Sandpaper Books!
thanks for posting. i remember when Atwater was in the same stages of change… City Terrace is going through a similar change, i dont know how to feel about it, i want to be embracing, but yet, i feel like, ok, what does this really mean? i have new white neighbors, they are nice, and they take the bus like i do, and i feel bad for the young woman who gets oogled by all the barrachos on Alma.
Highland Park is a mix of people, and its interesting to see that the pic included in the article prominently displays a white male.
The thing about Highland Park is it’s always been a pretty mixed neighborhood of different ethnicities, immigrant groups and classes. When I’ve talked to some of the working-class White folks in the neighborhood they feel left behind too. Some of the families in HLP have lived there for generations, they don’t like being marginalized either.
The article is totally presenting this false image of what the neighborhood is and it is a sort of white-washing of the area. I’m not sure where this need for sanitizing comes from. Is it a product of upper middle class upbringing? Even in Europe, you go to some of the famous plazas and they are dirty and full of all kinds of people, poor and wealthy. Why in the US is there this need to ignore and dismiss whole classes of people as insignificant?
Sorry, I guess my rant was not over! Hahaha…
Gentrification will happen, there is no way to stop it. I believe that what we can do is help shape and maintain it’s current culture. There are many youths from our community that are going to one day make the desicion to either stay in the neighborhood or leave. We need to tell the youth that this is there neigborhood and it is their responsibility to continue the fight of cultural preservation.
I also believe that the effects of eliminating bilingual education were going cause a generational divide amond the kids and their parents. Some of those gaps are evident with the ongoing distruction of murals in our neighborhoods. It really does come down to us and our children. Our parents are older and many do not have the spirit to keep fighting, (Yes there are many elders who are still in the front line, but not to many.)
I still have much to say, but I’ll leave it at this for now.
Viva Mi Barrio Cultural
PONTE TRUCHA RAZA
I’ve lived in Highland Park for about 8 years now. I live around Avenue 52 and Fig. When I moved there, the ghetto birds (that means LAPD Helicopters for those not knowing) would definitely be flying over some bulls–t happening between Avenue 50 and Avenue 57. I have to say, right after that Gallery opened up on 50 (and more artists coming into the little community that’s across from there, I now usually hear them around Avenue 57 and beyond.
I’m not saying that these cats are “saving” the neighborhood, but I have to admit, sometimes it’s like that pumping fist going “Yesss!” I wonder if some politicians’ kids live here now, because I swear man, when I’m coming down Avenue 50, at Fig (where EEEVERYONE makes a left turn but doesn’t turn on their signal), sometimes I spot cops cruising real slow, like how you might see them in Beverly Hills, patrolling and keeping things tight.
Nevermind what a New York paper has to say about the spot, you know what kind of pisses me off? It’s that on a Saturday morning, say I want to pop into the BofA right quick to get some cash out of the ATM, and maybe on a whim, I decide I want to buy some Bolillos at the bakery, the parking lady hollers at me on some “Escuse mi, este, da parking? Is for the Bank only.” I’m like “Seño, hablo español, & como es que ese vato over there esta selling bacon dogs sin permiso & yo no puedo dar un little dip a la bakeria para comprar pan, que-jeso?”
I’m just saying, I own a condo here, if Gentrification is going to make parking a faaaking nightmare, I don’t want it. If it’s going to make it safer for my kid to go to school (I got 3 recorded calls from the principal last year about shootings), Bienvenidos skinny pants!
That was a really excellent post, Chimatli.
What a crock of shit this NYT writer spews forth, blatantly racist, including class snobbery in that “wink wink” doublespeak that the new segregationist, shit art proponents, and nervous “urban pioneers” are so adept at putting out there for each other.
It’s always the same petrified suburban hipsters who put this crap up and it doesn’t matter where the working class neighborhoods exist, the actions and words of these self professed artists and sensitives sound like some corn pone preacher quoting biblical prophesies for the true believers of the congregation.
It’s interesting to contemplate and deconstruct this doublespeak for what it is, ignorance, racism, classism and evidence of just how much these edgy hipsters despise the real culture they hope to displace with there own phony vision of what constitutes a living vibrant neighborhood and culture.
NY Times article
“But few would ever confuse Highland Park for a cultural district. Until now. What was once a sleepy strip of garish 99-cent stores and auto parts shops is turning into a thriving neighborhood of cool restaurants and boutiques that draw young trendsetters in skinny jeans, flannel shirts and Converse high tops.”
Gee how curious, Highland Park and environs has been known as a cultural center for well over a hundred years beginning with Charles Lummis home where one can still view the visitors book signed by President Teddy Roosevelt, Jack London, Lincoln Stephans, and many of the most renowned artists of the era. Maynard Dixon’s works are on display in the doors and windows of the house. Lummis vision was of the whole Arroyo Seco becoming a national park up to the headwaters in Pasadena.
The Southwest Museum is and has been the world-renowned site of the great works of the Native Americans and their culture.
Mt Washington is the site of the Self Realization Temple and home of the founder Paramahansa Yogananda who first brought the teaching of Yoga to the United States.
The list of cultural attributes to be found in and around Highland Park is to long to list here but it is profound and dwarfs the puny efforts and experience’s of these new hipsters and gentrifiers.
“The landscape has changed significantly. Now, everything is centered on one street. It’s rare to find a walking culture in L.A.”
“On weekends, the L-shaped bar is often five deep with floppy-haired students from Occidental College nearby, local women in short skirts and high heels and artist types from Silver Lake with shaggy beards and trucker hats.”
Strange, I seem to recall people walking and shopping and working and living in HP for as long as I have been alive. And what’s up with the “code words?
“Local women in short skirts and high heels?” Is this a nod to the local Chicana’s who live in HP? Has a kind of racist ring to it in my estimation.
“A few doors down is Johnny’s (5006 York Boulevard; 323-551-6959), a dimly lighted bar with a “Cheers”-like vibe and a jukebox that bounces from Iggy and the Stooges to Led Zeppelin. The pool and foosball tables are a major draw, as are the chilled Jägermeister shots ($6). A favorite among York Street business owners, the bar often blurs into unofficial town hall meetings.”
Sounds like Johnny’s Taco House and bar to me, and does the author mean that the people listening to the Stooges, playing foosball, and drinking Jagermeister, are now running and deciding the fate of HP with their unofficial “town hall meetings”
“We’re in a city of nearly four million people, but here it feels like a small town,” said Amy O’Connell, an owner of Society of the Spectacle (4563 York Boulevard; 323-255-4300; http://www.societyspectacle.com), a fashionable eyewear boutique in a converted 1920s bungalow. “I mean, where else in L.A. do people honk as they drive past?”
Hey am I wrong or isn’t “Society of the Spectacle” the Anarchist book on action? I guess the edgy hipsters have appropriated Anarchy too.
And maybe the people honking as they drive past are also giving the one finger salute; Ms O’Connell should pay closer attention.
And why is it every time I see one of these new invaders walking down the street in HP I crack up because they are so nervous and tight assed they stand out like sore thumbs.
New culture indeed!
I lived in Highland Park from 93-95 and again from 2000 to January of this year. Lots of changes in HP…
I loved it in the 90’s and 00’s…….thought it was great and there was always stuff to do….now the hipsters come in and I have to pay 7 bucks for a beer??!? Assholes fucked up the bar scene for the locals………
I moved back to my hometown of El Sereno….at least I know those pinche hipsters won’t gentrify my neighborhood…or City Terrace or Boyle Heights etc…..
Sure there may be a smattering of them here and there in those neighborhoods……but no way will a full-scale gentrification take place……I’d love to see them try…..they don’t have the huevos……the locals wouldn’t have it….
to Julio: El Sereno used to have the Cameo movie theater on Huntington Dr……..but nothing anymore…..kinda sucks.
Thank God I got out of HP in time!
DQ, I couldn’t wait to read your thoughts on the article. Thanks too for giving examples of how HLP has always been a center of culture and the arts. I only went back to the 90s because I knew this part of the history firsthand as I was involved in many of the spaces I mentioned.
I didn’t even catch the short skirt/high heels reference. I did think the nod to skinny jeans as being something the new class wears as not being accurate. Almost every Franklin High girl I see is wearing jeans taken in on the bottom, just like Eastside girls did back in the 80s (and maybe the 50s too?)
The Society of the Spectacle is a book by Guy Debord, one of the founders of The Situationist International. It’s a book that looks critically at the world of capitalism and the consumerist culture that supports it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situationist_International
The owners of the eyeglass boutique sure have some nerve appropriating that name!
Great write up Chimatli! This is the kind of bullshit that always gets a pass, but it needs to end. Call them all out.
Yeah, I was wondering what the hell a “cafe de leche” was, do they extract coffee from a cow?
Welcome to Obamaland!
Good looking out, grumpy. I never thought about the fact that gentrification didn’t even exist until Obama took office. You’re on the ball.
I was just having this conversation about how in the past, we would never have had this opportunity to bring together voices from throughout the city, especially from marginalized places like the Eastside, and air/share common concerns these issues raise and to call people out on their crap who have until now, operated with impunity.
Exposure is proving to be our best weapon. Thank you Chimatli for a great post and thank God for L.A. Eastside!
grumpy,
And it only took Obama about 6 months to ruin this country! Wow!
Now I know what he’s been up to all of this time!! How do you know these things, oh wise one???
psst nah yeh (or whatever), what do you mean the way you’d see cops in Beverly Hills? You never see cops in Beverly Hills. Ever. Unless someone calls them. Rich people hate having the cops around. Most of them, in the hills, have private security anyway, and they’re pretty obscure..unmarked cars, etc. They only want cops where there’s an emergency. BH police spend most of their time in the southern and western ends of the city, close to city limits that border poorer areas. The reason why there’s a lot of cops around your Highland park neighborhood is to harass the poorer citizens that your new neighbors want nothing to do with. Either that or the extra police are on call, and responding to crimes, which means you still live in a high crime area and therefore maybe they should bring the ghetto birds back. There’s no other reason police hang around certain areas. They’re either on call, or they’re profiling a class of people and chasing them out of the area, and without a doubt violating their rights in the process. If you support that, then you’re a lot worse than some lay person who’s just happy to see crime go down in your neighborhood.
by my reckoning, the gentrification of city terrace and el sereno are happening, albeit slowly at this point because places like highland park, eagle rock and boyle heights have not quite reached critical mass. give ‘em time, slowrider, ’cause it’s only a matter of time until they realize the real estate value of them picturesque hills where you and i spent so many weekend nights drinking and playing gigs in the 80s. those that don’t think it possible need look no further than echo park and silver lake, both of which were just as “sans culture” until the hipsters invaded en masse and sent property taxes/rent prices soaring and the locals packing.
i’ve spent quite a lot of time in HLP over the course of my life, including going to two different schools there. the place has always had it’s own culture, one friendly to the eccentric, the working class and the outsider alike. lookin’ for people of wildly disparate ethnicities, satanists, artists, architects, anarchists, cholos, bikers, rich new age writers and punk rockers all crammed within a very small area? highland park’s your place, kid. and everything was centered on two streets, not one. that culture is no doubt what attracted said hipsters in the first place — nothing adds to hip points like living in a “dicey” part of town — and like a plague of locusts they will drive generations of residents out, suck the place dry until there is no hovel left to live at under $2500/month and move on to the next hotspot.
Well, Mr. Tumors……..I hope you are mistaken on El Sereno and City Terrace being overrun w/skinny waisted, disheveled, mussed-up-haired hipsters…..either way I’ll be sitting at home where my backyard is the heavens/elephant hill waiting….
Some of the lyrics from HLP by 8-Bit:
Highland Park’s our home
and 54’s our street
Scenesters come to visit
and they groove to our beat
Don’t move here bitch
or you’ll catch my glock
Fuck Silver Lake!
Fuck Eagle Rock!
When whitey moves in
they raise our rent
Get outta HLP
before there’s an accident
Finish your smoke
and slam your booze
and don’t forget to f*cken hide
from the Avenues
While the lyrics are tongue-in-cheek, I’ve heard HLP residents talk like this in everyday conversation. Folks are pretty into their neighborhood.
Also, what sets apart HLP from even places like Lincoln Heights is that it’s a very Chicano neighborhood with lots of second and third generation Mexican-Americans. This is true in other Eastside hoods but it’s not as prevalent as it is in HLP. In Boyle Heights, lots of the second generation Chicanos moved on to the suburbs or the IE, in HLP folks stuck around.
Silver Lake was never a Chicano neighborhood and Echo Park has always been Pan-Latino: Mexican, Chicano, Cuban, Central American, Filipino (I include them because they have a lot in common with other Latinos including the Spanish heritage). So, I think the gentrification process is playing out differently in HLP. Lots of the new yuppies that moved in tend to be a little bitter that the changes are not happening quicker. I think that’s why they get so excited by these articles, they think it’s gonna help turn the neighborhood much more quickly. For instance, The Verdugo Bar got written up in the New York Times a month after it opened. Tell me, how in the world did that happen? Lol!
To RobThomas:
“There’s no other reason police hang around certain areas. They’re either on call, or they’re profiling a class of people and chasing them out of the area, and without a doubt violating their rights in the process. If you support that, then you’re a lot worse than some lay person who’s just happy to see crime go down in your neighborhood.”
I don’t know why you think I support cops going after innocent folks, I mean, I just don’t see how you came to the conclusion. I know there’s a bunch of people out there that feel that everyone is just perfect and that the police just harass people for no reason, and yes it’s true that this happens to a lot of people every day, but I was talking about the come mierdas that shoot around schools during class time. If you ask me, they should drop bombs on those fuckers. People who don’t believe there are assholes out there fucking up neighborhoods only tell me that they belong to one system, and it is: “PAPI PAGA!”
They’re dropping bombs on people thousands of miles away and “protecting us from terrorism” while you got these cats blasting shots around our schools and killing kids for no reason at all – how the hell is that not terrorism!? Sorry for the rant, but once you own a home and have kids going to school in the neighborhood, your opinion over shit like this changes a little bit. If you want some examples of what I’m talking about, take your browser on a trip here:
http://www.historichighlandpark.org/modules/smartsection/category.php?categoryid=29
Sure, I personally don’t like the way the cops handle the neighborhood, they have absolutely NO respect for anyone. The chopper comes down so low they can give the palm trees a nice fade, there’s no damn reason why they have to fly around the neighborhood so damn low! You can sometimes literally throw up a hook at those fuckers and catch a ride to the scene!
P.S. it’s “Psst Nah Ey!”, that’s like a phrase that us Americans of brown descent say when we want to avoid something. Yeh was my Math teacher’s last name, and he was Chinese, LOL!
Our neighborhood is changing, that we can not stop.
This is our chance gente.
The Eastside has always had it’s charm, it is something so special to each individual- in their own way.
I could give a list of all the beutifull things in/on/of The Eastside, but it will be too long.
But let me just list a few of the evils in our barrios:
-Bicycle riders getting shot in the back-
-People marking territory as if they were dogs-
-Shotings around our schools-
-Jr High kids hooked on drugs buying drugs of other Jr High kids-
-Tagging on walls as if it were only art (it is also vandalism)
-Getting jacked on the street because you just happend to pass by
-Some city blocks smell of urine
-Prostitution
etc.
My point is that our shit smells really bad too. The worse part is that normally we do not smell our own shit, because it is ours. Oh… But when we do smell our own shit…We know it must really smell bad.
Cops are needed. We can not have a society with out an organized group to help regulate snapers. We as a community need to report abuses by the police, so that there can be documentation as to their histories. We deserve good policing by good police officers.
WAIT, one more tought.
Lets get our things in order. Because if our communities do get gentrified it should be because people feel it’s a nice place to raise a family appose to people saying “Lets more to The Eastside, it is cheap and we can help clean it up.”
I sure don’t want to give any hipster credit for work that has been going on on The Eastside for decades.
After all gente. They will publish and make videos and post them and say, “We have found new land. Currently only savages seem to have to have migrate and settled on this land. But, we have found new land a NEW WORLD and we will bring them the teachings of Gelatolandia…” etc.
You get my point.
Prepare yourselves for the onslaught of Audi’s emblazoned with “Hope” stickers.
Psst Nah Ey,
First off, sorry I got your name wrong.
You said that you’re glad cops are in your neighborhood in droves. You said that crime is down in your neighborhood (ghetto birds have moved higher up the hill). If there are a lot of cops in your neighborhood, crime is either far from down in your neighborhood (meaning gentrification does nothing to stop crime), or the cops are cracking heads to make sure there’s no crime. There is a direct correlation between crime and poverty, and you’re not going to find a collection of city data that will prove otherwise, only lone exceptions. If you think cops are only targeting violent shooters I’ve got a bridge to sell you. They’re targeting anyone who fits the profile of any crime, including petty theft, and guess what, that means everyone who looks poor. You can’t be so naive as to believe that these additional squad cars are merely driving around with photos of known hard core gang members and carefully trying to pick the out of society like bad fruit. They wouldn’t need additional units for that. They already have a gang unit that does it. The show of force is to shove Highland Park’s poor residents up to where those ghetto birds you speak of are. It is impossible to enact such a strategy without tossing the constitution out of the window. So if you support it, you support peoples’ rights being violated. If you didn’t know that’s how it works, then just say so. But don’t profess that it’s only hard core gang members they’re going after when I know for a fact that isn’t the case.
Tell me something, am I not an American citizen if I don’t own property or have kids? Does owning property and having kids make someone a more formidable citizen? If so, show Michael Jackson some love!
Oh, and as much as we agree that drive by shooters are dangerous and should be locked up, they’re in fact not terrorists, because they are not shooting to make a political statement. They’re shooting to control drug turf, in the vast majority of cases. The overuse of the word terrorist will likely fade away now that Republicans are out of power. God Speed. It’s inaccurate, and doesn’t address the real problem in inner cities, which doesn’t include citizens planning violent takeovers of local governments.
Queridos Compas,
My name is Anya Montalban Pineda – Schodorf. I was born in Managua, Nicaragua. I came to LOS ESTADOS when I was thirteen. I”M PROUD LATINA!! and PROUD resident of HP.
I would like to explicar to a lot of my compas everywhere what CAFE DE LECHE means in Nicaragua. We say Cafe De Leche because we Nicaraguans like to steam a whole lot of LECHE and then pour in just a bit of CAFE. Mi abuelita did that for me, my MADRE did that for me, and now I do the same for my MONITO TOMASITO! Like my Mama Rosita would say: is just a little bit of cafesito, it won’t hurt!! ☺
Please come see me at the Cafe cause I made this pequeno negocio for you guys. Who says LATINOS can’t have a good-looking negocio.
I was also disappointed on the NY Times article, but I was also disappointed with a lot of my COMPAS out there that have this idea ERONEA that ONLY GRINGOS can have negocios bonitos.
Vengan a verme!!! Y les preparare el Cafe como lo hacemos en Nicaragua!!
Anya alias La Flaca
I actually think “terrorist” is under-used. It’s been appropriated by people who want it to have a political meaning, but if you’re causing terror, do the terrorized draw a distinction between political and non-political terror?
No. It’s a word game for people who aren’t actually being terrorized in the moment.
If gentrification meant that life got better for the people who live in a neighborhood and just want to get ahead (most of them, wherever you look–they don’t want to live near crime any more than “yuppies” do), it would be okay. But too often it means displacement and homogenization, and that’s nothing to be happy about.
@ robthomas and Psst nah ey, you guys can compromise and call them insurgents.
all jokes aside, i think genetrification will continue to be an issue all over the Eastside as “redevelopment” of the area takes places. El Random Hero posted an article of about a community planning meeting one of many meeting that have been happening throughout the area. Within a few years of not months you will see that those redeveloped area and other areas along the gold line will see rise in rent and property value. Many of the traditional working class residents of the Eastside will be priced out, very much like what was happening a few years ago when property values were rising and many residents were moving out to the IE. I can speak much about HLP, since i live in Boyle Heights, but i’ll speak about what i know.
@ Chimatli and Slowrider who think it wont happen in Boyle Heights, best take a second look. Already you can seen 2nd and 3rd generation chicanos staying in the area whereas they may have moved out to suburbs or IE years ago. I will say thou its going to be a different and slower gentrification than what happened in Silverlake Echopark, etc.
Boyle Heights has a different and longer history than those areas, even more so that HLP. thou, once more ethnically diverse it has been much more concentrated in latinos and usually immigrants if not 2nd generation than those other areas. So what you will end up seeing is not the migration of outsiders into the the area, but rather as property values increase, that immigration population that has defined the area since the beginning of its history will be priced out. Then 2nd generation , 3rd generation ,and so on will remain, usually of higher economic means, maybe college educated latinos. Some pros can be said for it, but cons as well. but that’s another conversation.
Kate, the term “terrorist” has been appropriated by people who want to label every single violent act as terrorism, and no one else. If we label every single violent criminal a terrorist, then we have to come up with a new word to label violent criminals who are committing acts of violence for a political cause, which was the case with the largest attack on US soil in history, in case you don’t remember. If we don’t, then you’re saying that a member of a street gang is just as dangerous as an Al Qaeda member, which is insane. It’s not about being apologetic toward gang members, it’s about differentiating the threat of criminals. It’s about intelligence (I know, something that’s been AWOL for about the past decade…).
LOL. “under used”. My goodness. I even know Republicans who are coming around to the reality that the word has been overused and essentially watered down to being ineffective. Rappers are starting to call themselves terrorists. They’ll gain street cred and make more money calling themselves that. Funny how whenever we use exaggerated labels to heighten the threat of minority criminals, hip hoppers turn the lemons into lemonade, don’t they?
driving home from work through CT last thursday. i passed a woman who looked suspiciously like she’d accidentally made a wrong turn on sunset by the junction and just kept riding the beach cruiser east. there she was, pedalling down city terrace drive, a block down from salesian boys club.
i take that as a sign of the impending apocalypse, slowrider.
I’m just saying, terror feels like terror, regardless of the perpetrator’s motives. And I’m not a Republican–that’s just funny, frankly. I don’t think every violent crime qualifies as terrorism, but I do see how a consistent pattern can have a similar long-term effect, and how that might feel to the people on whom it is inflicted. Is a street gang member as dangerous as an al Qaeda member? I guess it depends on which one is threatening you at the moment. Most people in this city aren’t in direct danger from either one, but al Qaeda members are probably a lesser threat most of the time. (If you want to keep things in proportion, don’t hyperbolize. Just a suggestion.)
Regardless, you’re right that language does get appropriated. So let’s appropriate a term that can be used for the non-political infliction of persistent fear due to deliberately heightened danger.
Any suggestions? And thanks for the WTC reminder. I have a friend who barely escaped, and without your comment, I might have forgotten what that was about.
Well I’ve just got one thing to say to the clowns who seem to be “Mayor Sam’s blog” reactionaries here, who go into a double foam over anything Mexican or Chicano, (that’s right I said Chicano! And I’m not an academic or a student but a varrio product who knows whereof I speak about the term Chicano), and while their reactionary bones tremble at the thought of a multicultural society here on the Eastside, where no matter who enters the realm, is welcome, if respect and “amabledad” is shown to the one constant, the matrix existing that is Mexican, (or Chicano if you prefer),and who’s live and let live philosphy trumps all others.
Those who would say that our time is numbered and coming to an end should simply look around them and do a head count. Yea there are problems, welcome to the real world newcomers, but I am a product of the Eastside, three generations now and so far it’s been the Mexican Americans who have the numbers and the power that grows by the year.
I got no eyes to move anywhere, I like my HP neighborhood and all the people in it, mostly Chicano and Mexicano, but also white people, Asians, African Americans, and various and sundry other ethnicity’s that have made the Eastside home.
I have enjoyed watching the children of immigrants and natives grow up on the street where I live, they have by and large prospered and become solid citizens that in many cases have stayed on the street or have moved back to the neighborhood after suffering in suburbia for a while. I have made lifelong friendships with many of these immigrants and natives alike and in many cases watched them grow old and pass away.
We enjoy the Eastside with all its peaks and valleys, joys and tragedy’s, that’s life lived to its fullest, and as far as being displaced by these new gentrifuckers, I’ve seen them come and go, I and most people on my street in HP own their own houses and are multigenerational and don’t plan on going anywhere soon, there’s no place like home, on the Eastside that is.
And to the fifth column, and agents provocateurs, I can only say “We know who you are, you pull your own covers pendejo’s.
In the words of the very wise Johnny Mercer, who must have lived on the Eastside too, although not a Chicano I’m sure,
“Gather ’round me, everybody
Gather ’round me while I’m preachin’
Feel a sermon comin’ on me
The topic will be sin and that’s what I’m ag’in’
If you wanna hear my story
The settle back and just sit tight
While I start reviewin’
The attitude of doin’ right
You’ve got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
And latch on to the affirmative
Don’t mess with Mister In-Between
The Eastside lives!
Wow, I’m not sure how this conversation ended up where it did, with all the talk of terrorists, Obama and agent provocateurs etc…LOL!
Anyways, yes there are probably speculators that have their eyes set on moving into Eastside neighborhoods and there are people who have moved to Los Angeles in recent years who have no issues with moving into historic barrio neighborhoods. In my opinion, those who attempt to gentrify the Eastside will have much harder time than they did in Echo Park and Silver Lake because the communities here are much more established and have continuous residency in their neighborhoods. Community involvement in places like Highland Park resulted in numerous examples of local art and culture. It was appalling that this existing culture went unrecognized in the NY Times article.
For discussions on gentrification, why our neighborhoods are under-served, issues with gangs etc. there are really good comments on some of the other gentrification posts.
Also, I know I’m a one note samba about this but gentrification does NOT necessarily equate to the betterment or positive development of a neighborhood. Like Kate mentioned, it is predicated on displacement of the original residents. We can have decent neighborhoods without getting rid of the neighbors!
Kate, the term “terrorist” was never contingent upon what each individual person feels is terror, or terrible. My boss is a terrorist, if that’s the case. The definition of a terrorist, from a national security standpoint, had always been acts of violence, particularly en mass, to prove a political point or overthrow a government. Since 9/11, law enforcement and advocates have been using the term like an outhouse, to campaign for more funding. Simply put, it is not an appropriate term to describe a street gang member. And every time it’s used in such a manner, it deludes the true meaning of the word. Next thing you know, road rage will be called terrorism. Hey, it’s terrorizing, right? Like I said earlier, we’ll just have to come up with a new name for the types of people who attacked us on 9/11. Then, of course, that name will get jacked by law enforcement, too. It’s an ongoing abuse of the language, for self serving purposes. When police refer to gang members as terrorists, it is not for the better good of society. It’s to heighten the threat of gang members, which isn’t necessary, because everyone already knows gang members are threatening.
Also, I never called you a Republican. Just pointed out that even Republicans are coming around to the term “terrorist” being overused and deluding it’s true meaning.
I’m just glad to know that Café de Leche wasn’t a typo of the more commonly known in Los Angeles Café _con_ Leche. I guess it’s not Café from a cow!
And terrorists is a heavily subjective term. Many past social movements of the past could have been labeled as “terrorist” if they existed now. But the boogieman terms THEN was “Red” or “Commie.”
Now those working in the ALF or ELF are considered eco-terrorists even though their objective is not TERROR but DIRECT ACTION against those acting AGAINST all forms of life.
And also folks, PLEASE… Highland Park is HLP and HP is Huntington Park.
Hmmmm, I wonder what happened to Anya’s comment? Well, I appreciated her dropping in and hearing her perspective. In any case, before she signed the post, I looked up the meaning of Cafe de Leche and read that it is a traditional Central American drink so I changed the post.
I understand that often times the writers of these articles will use quotes out of context and perhaps that’s what happened with some of these store owners.
I was waiting to see what the LAEastside commentary would be on this!
This article instantly gave me a bad feeling. I tend to be a little forgiving about this stuff usually but, ugh, that whole writing HLP off as some kind of cultural void is such bullshit. And “sleepy”? WTF?! HLP hasn’t been sleepy since the 19th century (and even then there was something going on I’m sure). HLP has a neighborhood movie theater, how many neighborhoods have that anymore? Not to mention one of the longest-running community based car shows (of course that probably doesn’t count to the NYT since it’s low-brow culture or whatever). How many bands have played Mr. T’s? Add that to all the community based galleries and projects Chimatli mentions and…yet…stores to buy fancy eyeglasses and dresses, a gastropub (what a stupid, pretentious word), and a coffeehouse equal the birth of a neighborhood’s culture! Hell no.
I do like Cafe de Leche, as a place to drink coffee and get some work done not as a signifier that HLP has arrived, though. You can taste the irony in the air among the clientele and the d-bag factor can be high at times (thanks Occidental), but other times it’s a really great diverse mix of HLP people and it feels right. The owners and the staff seem very nice too (like the polar opposite of the failed Highland Jerk or Perk or whatever it was called) and they make a really great mocha with agave
Gang bangers live off of terrorism. To say that they are not terrorist shows ignorance to the gang culture. Intimidation is how they work.
Psst Nah Ey,
I partially agree with you, on droping bombs on some of these A**holes. Although there are some cholos who could be rehabilitated. Most of them should expire.
“Sure there may be a smattering of them here and there in those neighborhoods……but no way will a full-scale gentrification take place…”
All I’m saying is the above……Boyle Heights, City Terrace and El Sereno turn into a Silverlake? I think it’s impossible…..
Boyle Heights is way too real for the hipsters….I lived there for 3 years and heard gunshots pretty much every night – especially in the summer, there was a drive by across the street on a Sunday afternoon at 3:00…my roommate got hit up as to where he was from more than once in front of the house……..
City Terrace crazies don’t even know what year it is…..those hills hide a lot of locos that won’t think twice about blasting on some fool hipsters if they cross them…..see the garage in the alley off City Terrace Dr. emblazoned w/the graffiti, “Step Up To The Hills That Kill” for a reminder……..
And El Sereno gangsters have really numb brains….It’s not a mistake that there are no bars in El Sereno anymore….it’s not like there weren’t any before or someone forgot to open one……they got shut down because of the senseless bullshit that came w/them….
Last Thursday I was sitting in my living room in El Sereno and heard six shots go off….even heard the shells drop on the street……I went out after and picked up a couple 9mm shells……….knuckleheads were just driving by and thought they get some shots off into the empty dirt lot next door at 5:30 in the afternoon…..
I don’t think any hipsters would last too long after experiencing these kind of things that happen everyday…..
Boyle Heights, City Terrace and El Sereno just have a way higher ratio of locos that could go off on anyone at anytime than places like Silverlake, Echo Park and Highland Park ever did……I’m not saying that those places don’t have their crazies – just ask the dude from Midnight Ridazz who got shot this wknd. in HP while on a Saturday night ride……..but really, it’s absolutely no surprise that HP is getting really gentrified……just look at it’s history and mix of citizens……
And if it does happen, were gonna be mean viejos by then.
But, if the York, Cafe la Leche and some hipster galleries open up on City Terrace Dr. I’ll be the first to eat my words….
haven’t you heard, bro? yoli’s is selling frappes now, and avalo’s has a whole new ad campaign announcing their “california wraps.”
just kidding…..
Thanks for the shout out Chimatli.
The thing that gets me, is how excited Highland Parkers get when the LA Times, or the NY Times mentions our home in a positive way. Like we need their validation. The same day as the NYT, travel article I read about Williamstown, Massachusetts in the LAT’s Travel section and wondered if the residents there got all excited about the mention. –probably not.
Caxcan, I’m talking about the definition of the word terrorist as far as national security is concerned. Nobody’s denying that gang members “terrorize”, so to speak. So do some cops. Are abusive cops terrorists? Were the “C.R.A.S.H.” Rampart cops in the ’90s terrorists? Rodney King’s abusers? How about the police at MacArthur Park a few years ago? If merely terrorizing people makes someone a “terrorist” per the United States military’s definition, then all of the above are terrorists as well. Yet for some reason, when it comes to this blanketed use of the word terrorist that you, Kate, and many law enforcement types have subscribed to, only gang members seem to be brought up as examples. Why is that?
IT’s nice to bring this to our attention but most of us already know the score, It would be more effective if you would find out the name of the writer of The New York Times article, and give him a piece of your mind, and (commom sense too). So that they who wrote it , and perhaps some of the readers back east who may believe that shit can see that they are clearly wrong!Those idiots on the East Coast think they’ve got us figured out.Post a reply to his article IN the NYT!!Let them know how we really feel about things,that we have arrived, and are not waiting for them to come and make us “hip”.
Lots of good comments here, on a pretty complex subject.
On one hand, the homogenous concentration of certain demographics (and the draining of others) has had a detrimental quality of life reduction in our eastside barrios. To recognize that truth is to not dismiss the positive aspects of a poor latino barrio, they can go hand in hand, but our barrios were not always 95% latino with median incomes well below the poverty line.
Negative external and internal factors helped push many out, and once they were gone even those of means who had thick skin and love for their neighborhoods left because the commercial and infrastructural amenities left with the middle class. I cant count how many of my family who remained in East LA and BH comiserate on how they have to travel far to do their shopping, on how frustrating it is to have such a lack of commercial diversity,(although we arent dependant on them) how nice it would be if corporate america hadnt abandoned the barrio and there some stores that didnt solely cater to the low income crowd. Im not talking gastropubs, Im talking chuck e Cheese and payless shoe source, bars that arent dope spots and weekly narco shooting galleries, supermarkets other than el super and so on. That doesnt mean the low income stuff is bad or el super isnt a good market, but diversity is a huge positive contributor in a community\’s quality of life.
I think that diversity made the difference in the cultural vibrancy and health between ELA and HLP. I also think the Arroyo Seco has a lot to do with it, homeboys I had from this area always seemd a litle more conscious and environmentally aware than my hood in eastlos.
I also enjoyed this convo, but can some of the posters here go over to la.curbed and give them a bit of our perspective, so we dont have dualing echo chambers.
When people complain about gentrification, what they really seem to be saying is, “We don’t want those types of (white) folks in our neighborhood.”
I understand the complaint that some whites who move into Highland Park are culturally insensitive, but when old-time Highland Park residents complain about the white hipsters who are “taking over” their neighborhood, it sounds an awful lot like whites who complain when Latinos or African Americans move onto their block. We condemn whites for making such racist comments (and rightly so), and I for one condemn a lot of the above comments as showing a racist, anti-Anglo bias.
Thank you for writing this. I’ve loved HLP for years and that article made me so sad.
Simon, if you read the topic and many of the responses, the existing white community that is part of NELA is part of our eastside as much as latinos, and that is noted several times. How did you not catch that? This has to do more with wealthier folks moving in who have no respect for the existing community and act as if they are some saving grace here to fix it. The article implies the same thing, as if the vibrant existing community that chimatli noted was a wasteland (and as precedence has shown us, is code talk for “those mud people dont matter”). I also want to clarify that noting the positive aspect of our barrios does not in any way mean that the negatives dont exist, as some folks (not you simon) seem to assume.
When minorites or working class folks move into a wealthier area, they try their best to fit in. And usually if they dont, the locals are hostile and often times call the cops on them. Although the infusion of wealthier catering bars and eateries may not be a bad thing, it is bad when those newbies only want to interact with the existing communities to gain social prestige and little else. Furthermore, as another commenter noted, there are plenty of white wealthy people who haved moved into NELA and other barrios and became part of the community just fine. It is the attention needy “trendsetter” types who create the kind of ideology that enables such an elitist piece of self gratifying crap to pass as journalism. That is the demographic that is being clowned and makes us frustrated. There are pletny of whites who dont fall into this category, and I would categorize them more with the existing latino community they are a part of more than any gentrifiers.
Also, PLEASE dont go there with the “this is just like whites discriminating on minorities” stuff. To say such an ignorant thing is to dismiss the race based social hierarchy that still exists in this country, as well as the centuries of oppression and outright racism imposed on nonwhites by whites. Name a time when whites werent allowed to own proerty, or use certain pieces of infrastructure, or were hunted down and lynched by the thousands, or had to endure inferior schools and services at the hand of minorities in the USA. Maybe if that had happened such a comment would be valid, but not here, not ever.
This is no clean slate even playing field, and the folks who usually say that kind of stuff generally have no clue what its like to be on the short end of the stick. Well I do, and those kind of comments offend me, especially considering I spend a lot of time scolding brown and black kids for actually doing/saying racist things about white people.
The whites who complain/ed about latinos and blacks moving on their street were indoctrinating white supremacy, which was codified in our laws and institutions until very recently (and oftentimes it still persists, as numerous studies have concluded) and had a devastating effect in those nonwhite communities. Devastating to the point that its effects are still existent, and have manifested into internal destruction. The existing residents (latinos, asians and whites, as we noted and you didnt notice) are not manifesting any institutionally codified power structure or oppression, because i dont know of any place in the states where a wealthy powerful group of nonwhites are wreaking havoc on a oppressed white community, or ever have. They are concerned about the integrity of their community more out their own personal survival and survival of those mechanisms that help keep them afloat. Meaning they dont want to get kicked out or see the communal fabric that helps get them by unravel.
They are 2 very seperate things. And as the grandchild of WW2 veterans who wer denied their war benefits based on their ethnicity, as aperson who has experienced outright racism firsthand, i find it appalling that anyone would confuse the two.
Art, I don’t think anything I say in response to your post will sway you; you seem to approach the issue of gentrification from a Marxist standpoint (and you pontificate like a college professor who is off for the summer). Setting aside the issue of racism for the moment, the point I’d like to make is that when an area gentrifies, plenty of minorities benefit.
Take, for example, a Latino couple who bought their house in Highland Park in the 70’s for $45,000 and raised kids in that home. Fast-forward to 2005, when property values went through the roof. They grew tired of living with the gang violence that claimed their son and two nephews in the early 90’s, so in 2005 this Latino couple sold their home — to a gay white couple — for $495,000, moved to a new 2700-square-foot home near Palmdale, and had tax-free money left over to spend as they wished. Similarly, many African-American homeowners in areas like West Adams made a mint by selling to white “gentrifiers,” and they were happy to leave the area that wasn’t as “charming” to them as it was to the new folks.
The point of this long-winded example is that minorities aren’t always victims of gentrification. Regarding renters, the Los Angeles Housing Dept. has a pretty strict rent-control ordinance that applies to 2+ units in Los Angeles. Does this cover every poor person in the city? No, it doesn’t. Are some people displaced by gentrification? Yes. But I find your failure to recognize minorities as active participants in their own futures patronizing of the very people you seek to help.
Rob,
Terrorism is a means.
Yes the C.R.A.S.H. unit was a terrorist organization. If you terrorize, you are a terrorist. Take the example of the byciclist who got shot in HLP. That was terrorism.
The paletero who gets jacked by thugs, that is terrorism.
Do people use the word as propaganda? Yes.
We need to end all terrorism, all of it, in all shapes, forms and definitions.
Simon,
I agree with your realist perspective. Lots of Raza made a lot of money during the real estate boom. Some lost a lot of their money, simply because they didn’t know what to do with it. But the majority of people are doing ok in their new homes. That is untill jobs started disapearing.
There is no way I will critize their decision to move out of the barrio, for it is all of our faults for not spreading the word to our neighbors to get involved and stay here. Tell our youth to buy here.
I would like to add that only through direct personal interests and actions are we going to keep our barrios, free of A**holes. I called them A**holes because they come in all races and backgrounds.
And there are a lot of A**holes already in The Eastside that we can do with out.
Many good comments and insights here just wanted to throw in my two cents as an HP resident. I think Caxcan makes a good point, gentrification is inevitable. Based on some estimates, by 2050 80% of the country will live in cities, that is, in places like Highland Park. It is impossible to deny the influx of new comers to the city. This is not the first wave of gentrification, nor is it the last. In light of this I ask you to consider how culture and identity is preserved. Is it preserved by fighting? Is it preserved by the group that attacked the Midnight Riddazz on Saturday night? Is it preserved by yelling at a New York Times reporter who clearly has no understanding of our neighborhood? No, no, and no. It is preserved in the hearts and minds of its residents, in the buildings and cultural institutions. In our mixed urban future there will be many cultures, as there are now, side-by-side in Highland Park. Change is inevitable, what we are defined by is the grace by which we accept and act on that change. Before attacking the people and businesses of our own community, lets consider the details, lets get to know our neighbors and help them to understand what HP is all about.
What is truly at stake with the article is not how we see ourselves, but how the rest of the world sees Highland Park. Putting aside the question, “Why do we care what New York thinks?” for a moment, I would encourage you all to adopt your own tactics for broadcasting an authentic and historically correct identity for HP to the outside world, through the web, letters to the New York Times, even to your friends and relatives. And consider the local discussions that are already taking place, such as the recent article in the LA Times “A title bout between two Eastsides”. This is not the first time the NYTimes has written questionable articles about the area, consider last years, “When the Next Wave Wipes Out” about Eagle Rock in which the author Scott Timberg referred to Eagle Rock as a “fringe neighborhood” where its pedestrian walkability was being challenged by business closings due to the economic downturn. Perhaps New Yorkers just don’t get it and you know, I’m okay with that. Its our city anyway.
simon
And where exactly did i say brown people arent active participants in their future, where did I say they are only victims in this gentrification business? I work with youth to ensure that they know they are in control of their lives, yesterday I gave a speach to 20 kids who just got out of jail, and the gyst involved using their anger as fuel for positive action rather than self destruction.
I would guess you associate yourself with those getnrifying the area as the reason why you take the issue so personally, to the point of trying to attack you when i am merely noting the way things are. Besides the incorrect assumptions you made about what I said (because the stance you took as a response to my last comment is a response to things i DID NOT say), otherwise what is your point?
That we should shut up about locals being concerned about gentrification? That because there are winners within the existing community who make off quite well because of gentrification that the losers should be disregarded and ignored? That because you think I sound like Im pontificating that my points are valid or steeped in reality? That me noting historical fact, as well as my personal family history is pontificating?
You noted that the convo sounds like whites trying to enforce segregation, and I noted that is incorrect and why. Does the fact that you have no coherent response beyond things you made up that I said give you the right to make personal attacks on me, no.
In fact, your lack of regard for real experiences, real history and a tangible issue that locals have a valid right to be concerned about is a pretty textbook case of why people get annoyed by hipsters and getnrification. The refusal to understand others and disregarding of their shared experience and history, because you incorrectly view it as the same as white supremacists enforcing codified racism. That you’d say such a chickenshit thing as my sharing my families struggles with racism, how they created their own future, and how historical fact does not agree with your comparison is merely pontificating is pretty lame.
I have a new rule from now on, I should not respond to people who put words intheir mouth. that kind of behavior is a telltale sign that they are looking for a pissing match. Which Im not.
So yeah, Im pontificating. And concerned white and brown HLP locals is the same as racist whites from the 1950s. And my noting historical precedence means I am disregarding latinos as participants in their own future. Good job!
Art, as I suspected, there’s no point in arguing with you, but let me give you one example of a post that quotes lyrics that show a racist, anti-Anglo bias:
“Don’t move here bitch
or you’ll catch my glock …
When whitey moves in
they raise our rent
Get outta HLP
before there’s an accident …” and this poster goes on to say, “While the lyrics are tongue-in-cheek, I’ve heard HLP residents talk like this in everyday conversation.”
This is just one of many comments that show a strong anti-Anglo bias in Highland Park and other Eastside communities. (Many people have written that the whites who have lived there for years are cool, but the new folks are not welcome.) No big deal, no crime committed, people are just venting and I understand the emotions behind it.
But for you, Art, to assert that such anti-Anglo racism isn’t comparable to the institutionalized racism that whites have committed strikes me as a copout. I don’t believe in a hierarchy of racism, and you shouldn’t make excuses for racism of any sort, Art; one brand of racism is just as pernicious as another, and if we’re going to resist stereotypes and racism, then let’s make sure not to adhere to a double-standard.
Simon,
Art’s not copping out – you’re just ignorant of what non-whites experienced in LA prior to your learning to read and write.
Look these up please:
Restrictive covenants
Red-lining
There is more out there for you to absorb.
Ubrayj02, I’m not ignorant of what non-whites experienced in L.A. prior to my learning to read and write, and I know about restrictive covenants and redlining. For six years (1996-2002) I taught elementary school at a public school just off Central Avenue in an area that was predominantly African-American for years due to covenants that restricted blacks from living in other parts of the city. (Now, gangs like the Avenues have enacted a de-facto form of redlining by “green-lighting” black men who dare to move into their ‘hood. But, again, I digress.)
My point wasn’t to take anything away from what minorities have experienced or continue to experience. My point was simply that racism is racism, and we need to be on-guard against racist comments regardless who is making the statements.
The bigger question for me — and this is one that I will struggle with for the rest of my life — is the question of how people can express pride — pride in one’s neighborhood, in one’s culture, or in one’s country — but still resist the hatred of others that seems to go with that pride. This Eastside-pride stuff strikes me as a form of nationalism or tribalism, and it seems that any time a group is proud of its heritage or a geographic area where they live, they react to “outsiders” with hatred. That was the theme that I picked up in several posts and that was what I responded to.
Art, your eloquence and experience does not go unnoticed or unapplauded by the real people of the Eastside, people who actually live here and understand the history and lives of the people who really do live here.
The mixers and clowns who would would react negatively to the legitimate concerns of Eastside residents who have again been dismissed as uncultured, unimportant, and invisible, by a major publication(The NY Times), is both laughable and suspect on it’s face. Your patience and attempt to be diplomatic while being called a Marxist and a professor on summer vacation is just a ploy to arouse passions by certain individuals who have an axe to grind or suffer from OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder) and multi personality disorder.
Curious how when a legitimate concern from working class people, and especially working class people of color, is voiced, the uproar from the haters and naysayers usually contain ridiculous epithets of “Marxist, Commie, Anarchist, agitator, or even more typical is when the people voicing community concerns are Chicano or Black, these same reactionary clowns can be counted on to start screaming about gangs and killings and crime.
These clowns love to paint the Eastside with a broad brush as gangsters, criminals, illegal aliens, welfare cheats and just overall dirty people. They also are very adept and quick to cry the crocodile tears of “reverse racism” (like the right wingers are now trying to do with soon to be Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor, VIVA!).
It’s so tired and predictable yet only flies with stupid people or others of their own ilk.
Art, you go guy, adelante, we got your back bro, and as for the ludicrous statement made that gentrification and displacement by these nervous tight pants is inevitable, shit, now I’m laughing in my Dos Equis, I own two homes on my street in Highland Park and have lived there for over thirty years, there aren’t any “for sale” signs on my street, because everyone there has roots and likes the neighborhood, you should have seen it on July 4th, a massive fireworks display like every year with the whole street having fun, one neighbor who grew up on the street and moved away, only to move back with his young family a couple of years ago even supplied a commercial popcorn machine and gave everyone free popcorn, we had a ball on my street, everyone grooving and having fun.
I have seen these gentrifiers come and go and we’re all still here on my street in Highland Park.
And Art your right on, don’t respond to the clowns who put words in your mouth, or for that matter their foot in their own mouths.
Gracias DQ and ubrayj,
Simon, personal attacks aside, I believe we actually agree very much so on many points.
As someone who has experienced racism firsthand and would oftentimes rather not think about it, I dont agree with racism towards whites either. my mentioning of hierarchal racism is not intended to reduce how destructive racism towards whites is, but to note that it is a bit different considering dozens of thousands of minorities have died at the hands of white racists and not the other way around, that is it.
I have mentioned this before, my wife is part white as well as my huerito kids, I have a lot of white friends, several members of my org’s board are white and appointed by me, dah, dah, dah (I hate to sound like the ‘I have black friends guy, but I mention it to illustrate that I practice what I preach, that being a dick to whites because of their ethnicity is wrong. And on personal anecdotal level, treating a white person badly is just as wrong as doing the same to a brown or black person, so I agree that you are correct in that regard.
I guess the issue of race is so complex that it is very easy to misunderstand each other, but it seems like those i have argues with the most think along somewhat similar lines as I do, although a bit more extreme. I am a realist, I know gentrification helps out tons of natives, and i employ the shape up or ship out mantra in my dealing with youth as well.
Kind of ironic considering what people have characterized me as (not you actuall, but I get a lot of the “u r making excuses for them” stuff when I go out and get in kids’ faces for them to stop making excuses for themselves or their community.
Good comments all around, and DQ, we need to get together and shoot the shite. agonzalez@elacamp.org
I see someone’s having fun with my name. For the record, I do not hate white people, except maybe Tom Brady. That being said, Caxcan, I understand the pure definition of the word terrorist. To terrorize. Got that. Yes, a gang member could be considered a terrorist in that regard. So could an abusive cop. Truth is, I don’t classify either as “terrorists”. If we are to refer to the every day violent criminal as a terrorist, like hard core gang members and unruly cops, what do we call the types of people who attacked us on 9/11? Whatever it is, soon police will be using that term to describe gang members, too. If you think police are using the term “terrorist” to merely expand on the pure definition of the word, you have to be naive, Caxcan. They’re doing it to take advantage of the post 9/11 paranoia. Why help it? Why would you be so willing to perpetuate their obviously dubious use of this word by using it in the same way yourself? Honestly, Caxcan, were you referring to gang members as terrorists before 9/11?
What’s with all of the “college professor” accusations lately? LOL. Someone on the “What is a Chicano” thread was throwing around the “college professor” label toward anyone who prefers to be called “Chicano”. (same person, different nick??)
What’s so bad about being a college professor anyway, Simon? Should colleges be professor-less? Should college students just sit there and stare at the wall? This is like the “you must be a lawyer” comeback. If you’re in a car accident, not at fault, and the person at fault refuses to pay, are you not calling a lawyer?
Don Q and chimatli,
You expressed “concern” about the owner of Society of the Spectacle appropriating the name from Guy Debord’s book. Have you spoken to her yourself regarding your outrage or is it too tiring getting up from your armchairs? Or maybe driving by and flipping the bird more suits your revolutionary style?
Most of the comments on the politics of gentrification here: tl;dr. It’s not at all like a profesor on vacaciones. It’s the non-thinking parroting of pseudo-intellectual socialist gibberish that makes you mirror images of the palinistas. What I call Bolivartards.
The NYT article was laughably superficial and insultingly ignorant. It was clearly the product of an afternoon of “research” spent on a block and a half of York Blvd., then stopping at the Society of the Spectacle on the way out because it has an interesting name. (And it’s not even in HLP technically. It’s in ER.) The point is, the businesses mentioned shouldn’t be blamed. I appreciate all of them. I’ve lived in the area since 1964 and in HLP since 1982. I LIKE being able to walk from my home to a coffee house or bar. If having convenient shops that serve the people of the community is gentrification, then bring it on. We could use a good bookstore as well.
Damn, the chuppies are all out in force! Err, I mean, on their chair chairs typing out their indignant responses to one persons perspective. Good for them, at least they stopped watching tv for a second to think about these issues.
But really Chimatli, how dare you ever question the places that house and sell things? Consumption is a right!
Saying that a store is “poorly named” and that the owners “have some nerve appropriating the name” makes me a Bolivartard, eh? Haha, that’s kinda funny and I’m not even sure what that means.
But yes, I am critical of gentrification and of newspaper writers who write poorly researched travel pieces. I’m critical of maps of Los Angeles that display only four areas: Santa Monica, Echo Park, Silver Lake and Beverly Hills (see accompanying map of the Highland Park piece).
In any case, I appreciate all the comments, including the critical ones. I’m glad folks are reading the site and engaging in this discussion. It’s why we started this blog, it’s a place for nobodies to finally have their say!
Marcos, why don’t you visit LA Eastside’s bloggers in person before criticizing them? They’re often at functions around HP. Or, is it too tiring getting up from your armchair?
chimatli and others, if he does contact you guys in person, please get a picture. I have to see the guy who came up with the term “Boliviatard”.
Funny yet telling that the “person” with all the goofy names always needs to state that he/she has lived in HLP for years or in Lincoln Hts for decades, or is a native of East Los, or El Sereno, or Boyle Hts, used to work with Homeboy Industries (that’s how she knows that their ingrates and undercover gangsters), is a proud Latino and hates the word Chicano because only academics use the term, used to be a woman but is now a man and therefore is the last word on Kama Sutra tantric positioning including the art of cockfighting, quail fighting, and ram fighting.
I get a kick out the faux sincerity and apoplectic outrage at her/his Rush Limberger like aggrievement as an imagined victim of reverse racism.
A pretty funny show since it’s free, but still needs some work on the method style of acting.
Outraged? Hmmmm, naw, more like entertained.
rob wrote: Then 2nd generation , 3rd generation ,and so on will remain, usually of higher economic means, maybe college educated latinos. Some pros can be said for it, but cons as well. but that’s another conversation.
let’s have that convo: what are the cons here?
@Julio do you just miss your “flor y canto” or ? volunteers at the bike oven help local youth, families and every day peoples to get their bikes fixed–so they can ride and be healthy…
Don Q, Rob, chimatli and the rest,
I’m not who you think I am. I’ve never claimed to work for Homeboy Industries and I don’t have a drop of latin blood in me.
And I’d be happy to meet face to face with any or all of you to discuss gentrification and politics. Let’s meet at Cafe de Leche. Name the time.
And chimatli, as a quasi-journalist or blogger or whatever you consider yourself, don’t you think you should actually meet the owner of Society of the Spectacle before suggesting that others flip her the bird? Find out how long she’s been there, who her customers are? Or are you not a serious person who takes responsibility for your words and actions?
Cafe de Leche…LOL. No. Tacos Michoacan, on ave 19 and Broadway. You name the time.
And, I’ve never made any assumptions as to who you are. I was just pointing out how funny it was that you were calling out the bloggers here for criticizing the Spectacle of Society, or whatever, without first meeting with them, when you came here and did the same thing to this blog. That’s all.
And, are you going to tell us what a “Boliviatard” is, or what? I’m really looking forward to that.
in the interest of helping readers with the coded words being bandied about, i offer the following:
college professor = liberal = commie.
bolivartard = reference to simon bolivar = liberal = commie.
chicano = liberal = commie foreigner.
i love the new movida where whnever gentrification or some other “liberal” topic is brought up, the spectre is dragged out to put those with an legitimate grievance on the defensive — “you don’t want to be priced out of the area you’ve lived in for generations, pay outrageous prices for produce at whole foods, and made to feel like a stranger in your own neighborhood? racist white haters! you got paid well for that house you could no longer afford the property taxes on, so quit whining, move even further away from your work, friends and family to wherever the hell it is you’re going, so long as you’re away from us, out of our way and our whims.”
this disdain for the eastside being gentrified ain’t about karl, harpo or richard marx, nor is it disgruntled chicanos hating whitey. there has never been any shortage of non-latinos living in all quarters of the eastside, all of whom have contributed to the greater culture in some way. it’s about the “columbus” mentality of people who have the audacity to move into your home while you’re still in it, toss your shit out the front door and treat like you like the asshole that doesn’t belong there……
Of course that’s what he means, Jimmy. I know who he is, anyway. His go to “you must be a college professor” comeback (and he accuses others of being parrots…) gave him away. He’s got another quirk that gives him away, too, that he’s carefully avoided revealing. But he couldn’t resist his bread and butter “college professor” label. Long story short, things are slow at Mayor Sam’s today.
Jimmy Tumors, I was hoping not to get dragged into this debate again, but since I’m the person who made the “college professor” comment I feel the need to clarify my comments so you don’t read anything into it that I didn’t intend.
When I said that Art “pontificates like a college professor on vacation,” I was simply referring to the length of his post. In my experience, there are times when college professors love to hear themselves speak. (Reminds me of a joke: Elementary-school teachers love kids; high-school teachers love their subject area; and college professors love themselves.) When I said that he was looking at issues from a Marxist perspective, I didn’t mean it as a slam; I was simply identifying his perspective based on what I know about Marxism.
Third, if you think people are forced to sell their homes because their property taxes have skyrocketed and become unaffordable, you don’t understand how post-Prop. 13 property taxes are levied. Our property taxes only rise 2% a year and property only gets reassessed when there is a change of ownership. People who bought their homes for $45,000-50,000 years ago may be paying $700 a year or less.
Regarding gentrification, the majority of families in Highland Park are working too hard to care if some white kid in a porkpie hat moves in next to them and gives them the cold shoulder while walking down York. I guarantee you that they’d rather have 100 porkpie-hat-wearing arrogant pricks than 10 gang members living in their neighborhood.
I grew up in Silverlake (1971-1983), moved away when my folks divorced, then moved back in 1997 and lived there until late 2008, so I’ve watched a lot of new folks stream into Silverlake. Too many of the newbies seem to be striking a pose and trying hard to look cool, in a shabby, tattooed kind of way. But they don’t represent a threat to me like gang members do. Live and let live, for God’s sakes. There are enough vacant storefronts in this town that if someone comes out from Minnesota and wants to open some little pricy boutique, there’s still plenty of room for Tia-Chucha-style coffeehouses and other businesses that retain the flavor of the area. (Damn, now I’m pontificating like a professor!)
By the way, this is the first time I’ve posted on this blog, so the guy (RobThomas) who seems to think I’m someone else is wrong. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter if you think I’m someone else, but for the record, my real name is Simon (there are very few of us in this city) and I don’t go around hiding who I am or posting in different names. Enough with the conspiracy theories. Please recall that my original purpose was to point out the anti-Anglo racism in several folks’ anti-gentrification posts. If you don’t see it, you choose not to.
There is a cause and effect going on here.
Lets keep assumptions to our selves and if there are any questions needed for clarification, ask. Asking to meet people in person only escalates the dialogue into something other than verbal. Discussions on this board should be cordial to all commentators (this does not mean that we should not rip a new one on anybody who has crossed a line or needs to be checked.)
Save the street fights for those who are unwilling to talk, have given up talking, or don’t know how to talk (soldiers). What our community needs is more leaders who can argue a point with our loosing their tempers. It is bad enough that our schools do not focus enough on critical thinking, logic, and reading comprehension.
Socrates said, that those who get angry loose the arguement.
Marcos el Malo,
I would suggest that you not call people names and instead deconstruct their argumenents and tear them apart. Do that and we can have a healthy arguement. My main interest is my barrio
By the way Marcos, we are hardly armchair anything around here. I and a majority of the writers have been involved in the spaces I mentioned in my post and continue to do all kinds of community work. Yeah, so we take a few hours out of our lives to sit and write about our neighborhoods, I guess that makes us armchair revolutionaries? What should we be doing? Going to concerts, lounging and smoking cigars? And for the record, I never said folks should give Society of the Spectacle the bird. You need to read a bit more carefully.
As for this mantra for bookstores, give me a break! The bookstores that already exist in the NELA area are struggling. There’s the awesome IMIX Books in Eagle Rock that could benefit from more patronage. It’s not like folks are clamoring to read books anymore anyways. I think folks want the bookstore to sit and drink their lattes cause they sure ain’t buying books – sadly, it’s a dying industry.
Anyways, Marcos we can have conversations and discussions about these issues without resorting to personal name calling.
Jimmy, well said!
Simon, what’s your last name, and how can we contact you? You said you don’t hide who you are…
And, sorry, I don’t buy your explanation as to your use of the term “college professor”. You said it as if being a college professor is a bad thing. That’s what I first pointed out.
RobThomas, you don’t contact me; you respond to my arguments if you choose to do so here. I took time to compose and edit my previous posts, and instead of addressing the arguments therein, you ask for my last name and accuse me of masquerading as someone else. That’s stalker-esque behavior. I’m a straight male and I’m not interested in a phone call or private meeting with you. If you want to believe that I’m someone else, that’s fine with me. Stop the ad hominem attacks (look it up) and focus on attacking my assertions.
Lastly, I don’t think being a college professor is a bad thing, though I can see how my comments gave that impression. I have a B.A. and an M.A. and sometimes I regret not having earned a Ph.D., but I have found many college professors to be long-winded and out of touch with the world around them. There’s a certain obtuse style of writing that I associate with college professors, and I call it as I see it.
Simon, didn’t mean to flatter you, but no, I don’t want to have a phone conversation with you. I was just calling you out on your claim that you don’t “hide” who you are. Evidently, you do. Unless you want to disclose your identity. You’re the one who said you don’t hide who you are. Also, your homophobia in assuming someone to be gay is right in line with your obviously right wing pattern of insinuations and labels, “you’re like a college professor”, “I’m a straight male and I’m not interested..”.
Your agenda is obvious, “Simon”.
RobThomas, I’d like you to state what my political agenda is, so that I can tell you whether you’re correct or not, or whether you’re making assumptions that aren’t borne out by anything that I’ve said here.
I don’t have hidden agendas or hidden screen names, and I believe that I’ve been quite open and straightforward in my postings here. So why don’t you take some time to read the previous posts that I’ve written, and based on my opinions therein, describe my “obvious” political agenda. Thanks.
Simon, you’ve already revealed what your political agenda is with the labels you apply to others.
And, as far as you not using a hidden screen name, you’re using one right now, as far as we know, until you disclose your true identity. Remember, YOU are the one who said that you don’t hide who you are, or behind names. Why make such an animated claim if you obviously have no intention of backing it up?
RobThomas, I’m going to stop this discussion. I asked you to back up your assertions that I had some sort of political agenda, and I made it clear that I’m not hiding behind a false screen name, but instead of addressing my arguments, you respond with a general accusation that my “political agenda” is clear. I clarified what I meant when I compared someone’s writings to those of a professor’s, and I clarified why I felt his arguments were based on a Marxist interpretation of events. So again, I ask, what is my purported political agenda?
I’m not going to give my full name (so that you can Google me and get my address and my cellphone #) and even if I did, you’d simply find some other spurious reason to try to keep me on the defensive, instead of addressing my arguments. It’s impossible to rationally argue with someone who behaves in such an irrational manner, so I’m going to make this my last post.
seriously, rob your a bit scary and out of line with all your request for his personal info, just debate him or don’t.
Jimmy: college professor = boring and pompous pontificator; Bolivartard = knee jerk North American Hugo Chavista
Caxcan: Actually, I think meeting Don Q or chimatli or whomever would defuse the situation, once we saw that there were real human beings behind the handles. I’ve been accused of being a finger puppet, so I think I deserve the chance to establish my humanity. No one has made any threats to me, although Rob is getting kind of creepy towards Simon.
Anyway, we’re having a spirited discussion. I don’t see any of you as being threats to my physical safety. Except maybe Rob. =) j/k
Rob: You’re the one who suggested I should meet the people of your group. I get to pick the place. Besides, I would need it to be walking distance from my home, as I’m recovering from surgery and can’t ride my bike for a while.
well…i just read the digital version of this spurious new york times article today, and it is outrageous. i will mention in passing that apparently the print article did not contain the same content as the digital version, my girlfriend was pretty surprised at how different they were. so THAT’s how the new york times rolls, i guess…
in case anybody cares, they jacked off about portland like this for several years in the nyt, and the negative impact was, and still is, immense, in that town. so it is not trivial that they are printing this kind of crap. it is also not trivial that they perhaps attempted to fuel a conflict between newer and older residents of highland park by claiming that “such and such” is good and “such and such” is bad. the same thing was done to portland.
there, though, since white people imagine themselves to be classless and equal (a lie so obvious i cannot imagine where the white folks get it from except npr or their classrooms, i guess), the gentrification process went totally unnoticed until it is basically too late.
the same thing happened to seattle, where i grew up. both cities are too small, and it did not take very much ex-southern californian and ex-east coast money to sew the whole thing up. obviously, the fear that something like that could happen in the core of los angeles is valid, since it seems, sadly, to be well underway in echo park.
i agree wholeheartedly with other posts and writers that gentrification is the process by which the original inhabitants of a place are displaced and replaced by new people who not only don’t care about who they’ve replaced–in some cases they don’t even notice what culture/businesses/people they are replacing.
it is evident in the syntax of a statement, for instance, like “nobody lives in boyle heights,” by which (as we all know) is meant “nobody white,” as if the 90,000 people who DO live there didn’t count for anything. it pisses me off, and i have lived thru it myself.
when i find myself reading the entries on facebook about the pacific northwest and how wonderful it is from transplanted californians i still know in portland/seattle, it makes my blood boil. not that them loving where i grew up is wrong, or moving there, but moving there and wiping out most of the culture and history before their invasion, like we were just chalk on a board, or shit on the street.
that makes me fairly upset, but then i loved the northwest of drunken sailors, whores downtown, a piss-drunk bar on every corner and plenty of loggers looking to kick your ass for being a “city faggot.” why do i miss such hostility and bullshit? because it was the (minor) price to pay for all the cool, working class shit that existed when those days were in full swing. when i visit up there now, i cannot even feel like “i’m home,” because it ain’t home. so again, this is no trivial matter. hopefully people will angrily write the nyt, especially people who were “quoted” in this article saying things they never said.
beyond that, the future of northeast and east los angeles is too important for petty squabbling and name calling. many good points have been raised, even amongst some otherwise cheap-shot posts here, and even more amongst the constructive ones. and i would hope that instead of trying to call people out on whatever trivialities, folks in the community will work towards supporting all the good things about where we live, and increasing what is already working about our neighborhoods.
i moved here BECAUSE of the cool, hand-painted sign small businesses all over boyle heights, lincoln heights and highland park, and i support local businesses as often as i can because i want them to survive and thrive. lupe’s, aj’s bbq, ramirez liquor, carnitas michoacan, el tepeyac, cafe de leche, future music, jim’s, al and bea’s, troy burger #8, etc etc etc, you get the point, even the funky supermarkets.
hell, i even got lenses put in my glasses at society of the spectacle, cause they know my friends, and they did an ok job…it is kind of over-priced, and they scratched the lenses putting them in a little, so maybe not the best job, but far from being people to hate reflexively, automatically…just as an fyi…
i guess my point is, this article brings up a hugely important issue, so maybe not attacking one another without cause is more important than scoring “cha-chings!” against “the enemy” (who most likely resides in city hall with his termite minions and his bullshit, gentrifucker, illegal bonus density anyway, if i might paraphrase the mighty don quixote).
and by the way, just for the record, i’m only 44, but in my lifetime “white” started to include irish and polish. in discussions of the invented category of “white,” let’s not forget that “white” IS an invention of the power structure, and most “white” people were wops, micks, polocks, krauts and the like less than 3 generations ago, else why did they live on the eastside with all the other people the oligarchs wouldn’t let live on the other, properly aryan side of the river? the foolish naivete of “white” people that they are somehow part of the white power structure in a classless, raceless world is why the power structure keeps on keeping on, so its why i am not popular with a lot of uncritical thinkers amongst them, for pointing this out.
but i would hope that all people stop moving ANYWHERE on the basis of speculation on future land values if only the people who live there would disappear, because this is the fungal virus that is destroying the remaining traditional urban communities one can experience the REAL america from. like nela, bh, hlp, ela. real, old-fashioned, blue-collar, families-and-pets america. fortunately, the downturn oughta put the damper on some of this…but ultimately, it’s gonna take white people stopping being ignorant about other people, and rich people to stop spending in ways that cripple the rest of the community’s ability to thrive.
so, like many of you said, while this is in some ways about race, it is more about not being replaced without regard, as if you didn’t exist, an insult that should not be taken lightly.
i will leave out my horror at all the fixed gear, bicycle, “green” bullshit in hlp these days because i moved to get away from all that modern, pseudo-portland crap in the first place, but to each their own, live and let live. i just wish that kind of “hipster” culture (which is not necessarily embodied by ANY of the businesses or people involved with those businesses in the nyt article, by the way unless you’ve seen it so yourself), would open up to what is all around them instead of being so goddamn insular.
if that makes any sense.
Simon: regarding Marxism. I don’t think Art’s presenting a Marxist analysis of the situation. He said a lot about gentrification helping to create a diversity of commerce, people, and cultures.
I think Marxists would say something more like this.
Gentrification is evidence of the centrality of capital to social relations. When capital flees an area, businesses close up, crime rises, and buildings wear out. When capital enters, rents rise, businesses open up.
Anyway, I’m not a Marxist, but, I think if Marx were to see the discussion here, he’d point the finger at Capital. Here are a couple links about Neil Smith, who i think is a Marxist: http://www.enoughroomforspace.org/project_pages/view/198 http://www.policing-crowds.org/news/article/neil-smith-gentrification-in-berlin-and-the-revanchist-state.html
Thanks Dave for your comment, so many great points! So informative we could’ve made that into a post by itself.
I think it’s really important to give different examples of gentrification because in Los Angeles the issue is too often reduced to White people vs. people of color when it is so much more complex than that. In my opinion, it has to fundamentally do with class. In Los Angeles though, class relations are weird because if you grow up here like I did, you end up equating whiteness with being middle-class or more well off. I think this is because there are no large working-class White urban neighborhoods here. I didn’t grow up seeing any examples of poor White people. If they were poor, they pretended like they weren’t (if that makes any sense). Because of this, there are many people of color who think White people represent money which I’m sure causes resentments but also gets you nicer treatment in Mexican restaurants! (I joke but it’s true…)
It’s funny cause HLP is really the last Los Angeles urban neighborhood that has a sizable White working class community. Interestingly, it’s from this population that I’ve heard some of the most fierce opposition to gentrification.
As for The Society of the Spectacle, I’m sorry but they deserved to be mocked for using that name. I will not apologize for it. I’m not saying they are bad people or their business should be boycotted or that they are hipsters etc. But they knew full well what they were referencing when choosing that name and should’ve known it wouldn’t go unnoticed. The Society of the Spectacle is one of my favorite books and the Situationists have greatly inspired me, so just consider my issue with the store a personal pet-peeve.
Sorry Marcos but as a female I’m not interested in meeting random men off the internet, LOL! Let’s keep this discussion confined to the blog.
Besides, I don’t think there is any situation to “diffuse” unless there is some macho thing I’m not understanding.
Also, for the record, I’m no fan of Hugo Chavez.
hi chimatli, no, i agree, using the name ’society of the spectacle’ isn’t all that cool. just saying, they arent bad people, and you agree.
and i’m very glad to hear that the remaining working class people of ALL skin tones are opposed to being gentrified out in highland park. (by the way, i am not very fond of the term “race” to define climate adaptions amongst us human beings…we are all part of the human race, after all –and eventually, if the evolutionists are right about anything, everyone in southern california will adapt and everyone will be brown, no matter what “race” they are “from.” hence why the amerindians here were/are brown, no?)
people from hlp stopped all the old houses being demolished by developers in the 80’s, right? so it is clearly an intelligent, organizable neighborhood…thank god! cause if this article is any indication, you may be in for a douchebag storm, i hope not but articles like this give me the douche chills without a doubt.
Everyone should read this book by Neil Smith, about gentrification in Manhattan in the 80s and 90s.
http://books.google.com/books?id=UkscSFbalvEC&lpg=PP1&ots=GTLn0pOPaY&dq=neil%20smith%20gentrification&pg=PA17
It’s possible that we’re still in a kind of real estate bubble — a gentrification real estate bubble — and it can be deflated. I suspect it’s the basis of all the residual optimism on the news about this economy. They’re looking at real estate prices in downtown, or Manhattan, or some other gentrifying zone.
not sure, and will be happy if someone corrects me ’cause frankly it’s been ages since i was last down there, but doesn’t san pedro still have a sizeable population of caucasian working class folks as well?
i think the issue under discussion — and the whole “eastside” debacle, for that matter — boils down to the difference between new folks moving into the neighborhood and a jerks coming in and acting like they own the friggin’ place. resistance seems like a perfectly logical response to assholism.
while i’m at it, thanks, marcos for the clarification. must’ve taken all day to think up. in turn i offer a reworked translation to keep all us red-lovin’ luddites up to speed for ye:
Bolivartard = reference to simon bolivar = knee jerk North American Hugo Chavista = liberal = commie.
think i’ll jack both that and the phrase “the non-thinking parroting of pseudo-intellectual socialist gibberish” and use them on the next gaggle of neo-cons, minutemen and similar so-called patriots i run into. it’ll be funny as hell to see their flustered faces turn as red as them american flag lapel pins they wear as some sorta pathetic proof that they’re more “american” than the rest of the punters….
Jimmy, you’re totally right about San Pedro. Although, I heard things are changing down there too. Maybe Marshall or Dona Junta can tell us more?
DQ writes.
Funny yet telling that the “person” with all the goofy names always needs to state that he/she has lived in HLP for years or in Lincoln Hts for decades, or is a native of East Los, or El Sereno, or Boyle Hts, used to work with Homeboy Industries (that’s how she knows that their ingrates and undercover gangsters), is a proud Latino.
*******************
DQ,
Me and my friend Jimmy Tummor, Santiago, Dacalicious agree there is a multiple personality pendejo on this blog !!!
Hi guys,
Hexodus here. Hope everyone’s doing well.
I wanted to add my two cents.
+ NY Times is sort of clueless. Often a day late and a dollar short on discovering “new places”. It’s nothing personal.
+ Remember (as I explained before) – it’s the speculators, not the hipsters that are the problem. Sure the hipsters are more visible and cloying, but the raising rent and all the other BS is pure speculator doings. Once the hipsters move in, gentrification is long over. Fight the real threat. Although now that the housing bubble is gone, they will be for a while. Remember though, if your neighbor got gentrified it is because YOU slept while the flippers and speculators were buying up property. I know this may sound controversial, but it is true. I learned this lesson too late.
+ Re: hipsters: not all whites are hipsters. But here’s the deal: most of them are bankrolled by their parents. That means that you should be out there hustling them. They spend money like idiots. Why not take it off their hands?
+ It bothers me when “culture” is defined only as things you can buy. Fucking boutiques and gastropubs, while not necessarily bad are far from culture. But in the world of the New York Times something is not culture unless there is a price attached to it. Take their bullshit with a grain of salt.
FYI, That awful and racist article about the inferred cultural renaissance, taking place in the former cultural vacuum inhabited by invisible people, known as Highland Park, written by the airhead racist Travel writer (probably lives in that other former cultural vacuum inhabited by other invisible people, Harlem NY or Parkslope Brooklyn), and featured in the Travel Section of the New York Times, has made the top ten of the most emailed articles during the week.
I would bet the majority of the emailers are chewing on some gentrifucker ass as opposed to inquirys about acai high colonic cleansing, Rolfing/Pilates/giant baby stroller. availability.
for what it’s worth, i just sent this missive to the NYT…interestingly, the comment section has vanished from the digital version of the article. i hope it was from angry comments bumming their mellow…
Editor, the Times,
The article printed July 12th, 2009 under the banner “Surfacing,” titled “Highland Park: A New Culture District in Los Angeles,” is an outrage.
Highland Park has been a center of Latino culture for decades, if not for generations.
What’s more, should Latino cuture be too “garish” for the evidently abundantly naive and possibly rascist writer of this article, or too complex or foreign to be worth noticing, as outrageous as that would be, Highland Park was also home to the well-known “Arroyo Set,” a group of intellectuals surrounding Charles Fletcher Lummis, who not coincidentally founded the Southwest Museum, also in Highland Park.
This kind of heavy-handed treatment of an area helped to ruin Portland Oregon, for which I’m sure we all owe your publication a debt of gratitude of some kind. So it is with great pleasure that I see you have begun circling your next victim, since after all, we ignorant peasants on the west coast clearly need your enlightenment.
Please in future either stick to subjects you know something about, or proceed to practice actual journalism, through which you may uncover facts. You are, after all, The New York Times, should that mean anything at all in the 21st century.
Dave Mortenson
Boyle Heights,
Los Angeles
Dave, your retort to the classist, racist, dismissive article about Highland Park in the NYT travel section was not only astute but timely and very helpful to the survival of this multicultural working class neighborhood.
And anyone who says the gentrification process would enable residents to “move up” and progress by capturing big money on their HP home and moving to Palmdale or Victorville or Rialto doesn’t really understand what makes for a well rounded multicultural living experience. Kicking tumbleweeds out of a track home in some suburban Hades on Saturdays is not my idea of “movin on up”, those that desire that existence, well more power to em.
And your experience with gentrification in the Northwest, (Portland, Seattle), gives you an edge and some legitimacy to speak on this subject.
This deadening and numbing process of gentrification is not just a So Cal or LA phenomenon but is nationwide in scope.
My uncle owns an old historic bldg in Hudson NY where gentrification is turning the town upside down from a one time Hudson River Manufacturing center (that yes, polluted the shit out of the river), that was composed of white and black ethnic working class people into an artsy/fartsy, gentrified, town of middle and upper class hipsters, wealthy NYC professionals and herds of real estate agents.
The once funky and great Warren St. is now populated by new age and self congratulatory back slapping “artist’s”, phony ass Mexican Restaurants,Bistros,Wine bars,and Chinese Herbal Medicine/Cranial therapy business’s.
The former working people have all lost their jobs and live on welfare, food stamps and dealing drugs, unless they are lucky enough to have retirement from one of the former industrial factories.
These new urban refugees have only contempt and scorn for the working class who still manage to hang on, they get nothing but snide comments and sneers from the new impatient bourgeoisie hipsters.
I was visiting Hudson last year and drinking some wine in one of the Warren St “WIne Bars” (hey in NY you can only get cheap ass Taylor or some other stink juice wine in a liquor store), and was talking to a 40ish something woman from NYC who had bought an old historic bldg and was in the process of a restoration. I commented on the young black and white working class kids out on the street late at night and the lack of a playground or boys and girls club.
This woman stated in an arrogant and dismissive manner “kids? I hope they all get picked up by the police or removed from the area somehow, one less feral kid is always a blessing”.
Very ugly and IMO very typical attitude from these petite bourgeoisie trust fund wannabees.
PS, After that comment she ended up paying for her own fucking wine!
And a shout out to Dave and all who took the time to ream the NYT author of the ignorant article.
Hector, FYI:
Simon
July 15th, 2009 | 12:26 pm wrote:
“for the record, my real name is Simon (there are very few of us in this city) and I don’t go around hiding who I am or posting in different names.”
……
He was the one who insisted he was not posting under any pseudonym (mocking others for doing so), so I merely asked him to back it up. That’s all. Anything else, Hector, besides the fact that I’m white and from Sacramento, dully noted from a previous thread?
its ok rob.you should take something for that.
RobThomas, yesterday I wrote that there was no point in arguing with you, and your behavior was like that of a stalker, so I stopped posting. Now I see that you continue to bring my name up. What’s the issue here? You’re behaving like a bully and I won’t tolerate being bullied. I have done nothing wrong here and I don’t deserve to be harassed by you. So far I’ve been cordial — but you’re pushing me. I stopped posting yesterday to avoid escalating this. Stop bringing up my name and stop the harassment.
Simon,
When I first started to post comments on this blog, I encountered a similar problem like the one you are having right now with the same commentator.
Don’t let it get to you. Some people do not read the comments in their entirety and assume that the voices in their heads are actually real people.
I do encourage you to keep posting and sharing your thoughts on this site.
Caxcan — I appreciate the kind words, but I obviously made a mistake in posting on this blog in the first place. My views on gentrification just seem to be too out of the norm for folks here (or at least for that one conspiracy-theory-prone commentator). It’s frustrating to deal with such immature, bullying behavior, and I think it’s more common on the internet where people can be as rude or bullying as they like, with few consequences. I think people tend to be much more polite and decent in person.
I also think that when people have a personal conversation with each other they’re more open to hearing the other side and learning something. When people post on a blog like this, we’re doing it for an audience, so perhaps our guards are up and we’re less likely to concede a point. Take care.
Caxcan, very true what you said about some Cholos who can be rehabilitated, those that do are as important (in my opinion) as any other respectable member of society, because it takes an immeasurable amount of huevos to get out of that life and live a life that is considered “normal.”
Thank you for pointing that out, you sound like a real stand up dude. I would say “you should come down to HLP and look me up so I can buy you a beer or a cafecito at one of the local spots” but I don’t want to sound all weird like this dude RobThomas trying to get peoples’ pictures and asking for real names and stuff.
Simon, don’t pay attention to Trolls homeboy, and in my point of view, the land belongs to those who cultivate it bro, so I personally don’t get too deep with this whole “Gentrification” thing personally. I own a home here, and if you start a business or move in and you’re all about improving the neighborhood, I’m with you bro, you could be White, Black, Brown, Polkadot, from Mars even – as long as you take an interest to improve things.
Simon,
I also at the same time that Caxcan did, had the same person try to come at me and I was able to reveal many of his inaccurate accusations. In every thread he seems to pick a fight with someone.
I think this blog is great because of its diverse comments. We all have different life experiences which leads to what is reality to us and its a great place to share it. People are not always going to agree but hopefully they will learn from others experiences.
I don’t comment a lot but I do enjoy checking in on the blog and read the stories and the comments. I also encourage you to continue to post and share your thoughts.
I don’t have anything to contribute to the conversation going on here, I just wanted to be the 100th person to comment hahahah
Glory Hog!
Wow! Thanks for sharing this with us. It does boil the blood to hear stories like this.
~rafa
To any of the regular blog authors or mods listed at the upper right of this page, please do let me know if my commenting here is disruptive to the blog in any way, as some of the comments above have suggested. Thank you.
DQ wrote:
“Kicking tumbleweeds out of a track home in some suburban Hades on Saturdays is not my idea of “movin on up”…”
Seriously, one of the best lines ever and so true!
It’s not my idea of movin’ on up, either, but I wouldn’t be so presumptuous as to tell an immigrant family (or anyone else) what they should do with their equity or where they should move.
In 2003, I took a break from teaching (I’ve since returned to the classroom) and tried my hand at real-estate sales in Northeast L.A. I had just returned from a stint in the Peace Corps (Cote d’Ivoire) and had fallen in love with Highland Park, and I relished the opportunity to work with first-time buyers. However, several Latinos whom I met who lived and rented in the area told me they wanted to buy in Alhambra or Monrovia or further out.
When I asked them “What’s wrong with Highland Park or El Sereno?” they told me, “You don’t know this area like we do.” They mentioned the gangs, and I’d tell them, “How about the area north of York?” or “How about Collis in El Sereno?” But they were pretty resolute in wanting to move elsewhere.
These were renters who had lived in Northeast L.A. for years and wanted out. Who was I to try to convince them to stay put? And if a new group comes into the area with fresh eyes and enthusiasm, who are you to discourage them or keep them out? Is your hold on Northeast L.A. so tenuous that a group of Birkenstock-wearing trustafarians are a threat? Come on; in my opinion, there are bigger fish to broil (frying isn’t healthful).
Simon: You said you weren’t going to engage with Rob, yet you still do. Just drop it already. Take the high road.
Rob: I might have missed your response, but I take it that you’re not serious. And since no one else expressed an interest and chimatli shot me down . . . OK, one last enticement. If any of you enjoy the leaf, I will bring along some fine Nicaraguan puros, which we can smoke outside the cafe while sipping our coffee. I’ve got some nice Perdomos, some Joya de Nicaraguas, etc. You all let me know what you like and I’ll see if it’s in my humi. Anyway, I hopefully established that I’m not anyone’s finger puppet by my willingness to prove it face to face.
Jimmy: I intentionally left out liberal from my definition because liberals are the classic and natural enemies of the radical left. Modern Liberalism rose in answer to the the threat of Totalitarian Socialism, demonstrated today by Cuba and, increasingly, Venezuela. I also know the difference between New Deal style/welfare capitalism and Socialism. Don’t worry, though. I do think some of you are commie pinkos, but not because you’re left of center.
Dave: Nice letter. I just want to point out the HLP’s tradition of being a culture district goes back over 100 years. Look up Charles Lummis, look up Judson Studios (and take note that William Lees Judson taught fine art at the USC School of Fine Arts which used to be located in . . . .Highland Park.
Everyone: I came here because I, too, was deeply offended by the NYT article, but I became quickly offended by some people using it as an excuse to trot out tired old polemics against gentrification. I came out swinging when what I saw as personal attacks were made against an owner of one of the businesses mentioned, a business that the attacker obviously knows nothing about. And the reasoning? “She appropriated the name of my favorite book”. I think that’s lame. Add that to the fact that here we’re discussing the failure of the NYT to do basic research? Am I the only one enjoying the irony?
Anyway, I really appreciate the comments of folks like hexodus, who doesn’t have the knee jerk reaction to new shops helping revitalizing a block or two (a revitalization that has been slowly going on for some time, mind you).
PS: Please forgive the length of this comment. I had to get caught up.
Also, I wanted to ask everyone, since we’ve exhausted the deconstruction of the article itself, how would you have written the article? One of the stupidities was the author calling York Blvd the main drag of Highland Park (obviously Fig is the mainer main drag). But if you were going to confine yourself to York Blvd, what businesses would you have highlighted? (Feel free to replicate Jonathon Gold. It’s not like he has a monopoly.) (Or don’t confine yourself to York. Do whatever.)
Personally, I think one of the coolest and most interesting businesses that says a great deal about the neighborhood’s character is Verdugo Pet Store, which specializes in avian barnyard animals. Ducks, chickens, and geese, and not just at Easter but year round. This dusty old shop has been there for decades, and was on Vedugo Blvd in Glassell Park for decades before that. I remember them having goats and llamas back then, but I digress. Vedugo Pet Shop caters to the urban farmer, i.e., people that like their eggs REALLY fresh. (Perhaps practitioners of Santeria are also among the customers, but I don’t know anything about that.)
I’d profile:
1. Galco’s Old World Grocery on York near Avenue 57 (tons of obscure sodas and candy and hundreds of types of beer)
2. The guitar shop on York (I think it’s called Zeppelin Guitars or something like that; I passed by one Saturday a few years ago and they had a band playing outside)
3. The knitting store on York — I’ve only been inside once but it’s a pretty unique little place.
Newbies,
Yeah, this site can get a little rough and tumble, some thicker skin would help. But you are all welcome to stick around and see us on a less feisty day, we can be very pleasant when we are not riled up!
Oldies,
Maybe we can be a bit easier on those just testing the waters? Let’s try and be respectful and understanding of others, even when they have wrong opinions about stupidly named fancy eyeglass boutiques. Well, let’s try to try.
@Simon,
1. That’s been there since I was a kid! People come from all over to buy their favorite beverages there.
2. It’s Zeppelin Guitars. Once in a while they have a band playing out front.
3. Do you mean Pets with Fez Weaving Studio? It’s pretty awesome and Baba Ji is an interesting guy to talk to when he sits out in front of his shop to smoke a cigarette. If you ever see him out there, don’t hesitate to stop and shoot the shit. The guy is very friendly and informative. They offer classes, and Baba Ji is a master weaver. If I was interested in weaving, I’d want to train under a master like him. I’ve got an interesting story with him in it; if I ever get the chance to bend your ear, remind me.
El Chavo,
I wasn’t exactly polite with my first post in this thread, so I can take the rough and tumble and maybe deserve it. I’m glad this place isn’t completely the echo chamber I first thought it was. But thanks for your kind words.
Marcos El Malo
July 16th, 2009 | 11:26 pm wrote:
“Simon: You said you weren’t going to engage with Rob, yet you still do. Just drop it already. Take the high road.”
And, here’s Marcos himself, taking the high road:
“I do think some of you are commie pinkos, but not because you’re left of center.”
Accusing people of being totalitarians is so high road, Marcos. Got any more high road advice? Of course you do. Here’s more of Marcos taking the high road:
“I came out swinging when what I saw as personal attacks were made against an owner of one of the businesses mentioned, a business that the attacker obviously knows nothing about. And the reasoning? “She appropriated the name of my favorite book”. I think that’s lame. Add that to the fact that here we’re discussing the failure of the NYT to do basic research? Am I the only one enjoying the irony?”
Obviously, Marcos’s idea of the “high road” is getting one last punch in. But he’s not done. He takes the high road just one more time:
“Anyway, I really appreciate the comments of folks like hexodus, who doesn’t have the knee jerk reaction to new shops helping revitalizing a block or two (a revitalization that has been slowly going on for some time, mind you).”
Marcos, I can only imagine your low road…
I’ve got thicker skin than a goodyear huarache. And I’ll go word to word with anybody, but I pity those that are illogical and delusional. And, so, I will not waste my time with them.
To everyone else, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It shows to me an active community of thinkers, even if we don’t agree- it is still healthy. There is nothing more I like, than a good debate.
Rob’s upset that I cock blocked him. Sorry, Rob. I just don’t think Simon’s your type.
Marcos, I’m going to take your advice and take the high road. Later.
i wish you would do that on every thread
Hector, I asked if any of the mods or authors, listed at the upper right, had any problem with my comments. As soon as one of them concurs with you guys that I’m this trouble maker you’re painting me out to be, I’m all ears. It’s that simple. Until that happens, I’m left to believe that you guys are either one or two trolls from another blog targeting me, using various pseudonyms, or just real drama queens. The fact that at least two of you showed up here around the same time I did, from what I can see reviewing the blog’s archives, leans toward the former. But we’ll let the moderators and regular authors here sort it out, assuming they even feel it’s an issue. I’m respecting whatever they ask out of us. And so far, I haven’t seen where any of them agree with your guys’ opinions of me.
Rob: “Marcos, I’m going to take your advice and take the high road. Later.” Noted with appreciation. No hard feelings? If there really are, I apologize.
In response to Marcos El Malo July 16th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
If I’d had the chance to write this article, I would have focused on the efforts, prior to the opening of these new businesses and retrofitting of older ones, by the LADOT to add a travel lane to York Blvd. by removing car parking.
The LADOT has a singular focus in LA that runs counter to the interests of local businesses in old fashioned walkable neighborhoods like Highland Park: they only care about car throughput and speed. Fast cars on Figueroa and York and high volumes of cars on both street guarantee that few cars stop, few people care to walk and shop, and even fewer try to socialize and mingle in the commercial areas.
Yes, the streets are filled with locals walking to stores, but nowhere near what it could be if the monolithic focus on cars was shifter to encourage more retail foot traffic.
Anyway! Long story short: the LADOT’s proposal to speed up York Blvd was shot down. Instead a coalition of businesses and residents got a section of York narrowed, added signals, and slowed down car traffic and boom: the York, Grassshopper, Cafe de Leche, etc. etc. etc. right in the middle of the calmest traffic area on the block.
Basic reporting with longtime residents would obviously reveal more, like the hard-fought liquor permit further down the street for what is now Juanita’s Restaurant that the building owner/developer pulled a coalition of neighbors together for to show that they wanted commerce on their commercial corridors – that, to me, was a moment when the baby-boom “I hate the city” voters got their asses kicked by a new generation of pro-urban residents.
I dont like fighting with anyone, the attackishness and oneupmanship that has been prevalent here lately is lame and a big turnoff to me.
I enjoy good discussion, even with those who disagree with me, but Im too old and well adjusted for pissing contests.
I loved your response to the NYT article. I am a new resident to Highland Park. I recently moved into a house with my girlfriend who has lived here for three years.
I first started coming to Highland Park to see bands at Mr. T’s. Later I started a band that played Mr. T’s. (We’ve even played with 8-bit before.)
Since moving here, I’ve fallen in love with the staples of Highland Park. I’m constantly trying to learn more about my new neighborhood.
As a new resident who happens to be in a band (in some people’s minds, that automatically makes you a hipster), I have a fear of being lumped in with the a-holes (as someone before dubbed them) who move here on daddy’s dime.
So let me just say, some of the newer residents aren’t hipsters. Some of us attend Historic Highland Neighborhood Councel meetings. Some of us are full of civic price. Some of us picture living here for a long long time among the same neighbors they have now.
Double agents
chicano middle class
middle class
‘the chicano’ artists
all other artists
‘progressive chicano’ politicians
politicians
progressives
anarchist (some)
hmmm who else did i leave out?
oh ya Democrats.
We dont really have to worry about Republicans here…
or do we?
http://zinelibrary.info/files/yuppy_takeover_11_17.pdf
Well, I’m glad to read that Highland Park is finally turning around and becoming a destination where people feel comfortable going to visit once again. I was born in Los Angeles in the 1950s and grew up in Highland Park in 60s. It used to be a wonderful part of Los Angeles with nice homes and familes, but just like Lincoln Park and so many other areas it really went to hell. It became a place where you couldn’t walk the streets at night, and harldy a wall, fence or store front that wasn’t marked up with graffiti and other baloney.
Finally the place got so bad we up and moved to Alhambra, where at least at that time you didn’t have those idiot gang bangers and Chicano politicians who had a million and one excuses for their bad behavior.
So if new people are moving in and cleaning that mess up like they did in Atwater and other areas of Los Angeles I say good! It’s about time.