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	<title>Comments on: The Dentrimental Downer of the Digital Camera</title>
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	<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/</link>
	<description>Life Beyond The River</description>
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		<title>By: -k-</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22277</link>
		<dc:creator>-k-</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 04:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22277</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve learned more than once that cameras and food vendors don&#039;t mix.

Slightly off topic, I went to Breed Street once and saw a boiling pot of oil unattended and waist high. It looked like a terrible accident was going to happen. Always regretted not saying something but they probably would have resented the intrusion.

On the positive side, my Word Verification is &quot;Trippy&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve learned more than once that cameras and food vendors don&#8217;t mix.</p>
<p>Slightly off topic, I went to Breed Street once and saw a boiling pot of oil unattended and waist high. It looked like a terrible accident was going to happen. Always regretted not saying something but they probably would have resented the intrusion.</p>
<p>On the positive side, my Word Verification is &#8220;Trippy&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22146</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22146</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d be mad too if you were trying to capture my soul with your camera!  haha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d be mad too if you were trying to capture my soul with your camera!  haha</p>
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		<title>By: M. Saldivar Galindo</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22110</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Saldivar Galindo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 03:54:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22110</guid>
		<description>There is a reason why a &quot;non professional&quot; camera is called a point and shoot. No one needs permission in public spaces, no one. Or as my uncle would say: &quot;Me vale madre!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a reason why a &#8220;non professional&#8221; camera is called a point and shoot. No one needs permission in public spaces, no one. Or as my uncle would say: &#8220;Me vale madre!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: alienation</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22088</link>
		<dc:creator>alienation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22088</guid>
		<description>I agree with El Chavo.  The current popularity of street food should be used as a lever to try and legitimize it.

The real people targeting vendors are (always) other restuarants, residents, and competitors.  Now, it&#039;s politicians trying to save their butts... because the restaurants and complainer residents are way more likely to vote and give campaign donations.

Seriously - I imagine that approximately 100% of these complainers will vote or donate, and it&#039;s a key issue for them.  100% easily, and their complaints will even cause friends to make protest votes.

I imagine, for the customers, it&#039;s barely an issue at all.

Legitimizing the business would provide protection.  The only problem would be that legal food carts cost $5,000 and upwards, and legalized vending zones would probably charge rent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with El Chavo.  The current popularity of street food should be used as a lever to try and legitimize it.</p>
<p>The real people targeting vendors are (always) other restuarants, residents, and competitors.  Now, it&#8217;s politicians trying to save their butts&#8230; because the restaurants and complainer residents are way more likely to vote and give campaign donations.</p>
<p>Seriously &#8211; I imagine that approximately 100% of these complainers will vote or donate, and it&#8217;s a key issue for them.  100% easily, and their complaints will even cause friends to make protest votes.</p>
<p>I imagine, for the customers, it&#8217;s barely an issue at all.</p>
<p>Legitimizing the business would provide protection.  The only problem would be that legal food carts cost $5,000 and upwards, and legalized vending zones would probably charge rent.</p>
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		<title>By: bhhapa</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22086</link>
		<dc:creator>bhhapa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22086</guid>
		<description>Gee, good question RobThomas. I guess my point is that taking photos of anything beyond a self-absorbed profile pic for facebook/myspace is challenging.  And for the amateur photographer who may not have the professional or interpersonal skills to engage in a particular setting as a professional photographer would, it could be a frightening experience. 
My other point is is that it&#039;s just so ironic.  It&#039;s ironic that in a time when the average person has the resources at their fingertips to be their own historian, there is a resistance to the overexposure and overdocumenting of culture and history in the making.  Another ironic point is that we document the overdocumenting. Where does it end?! What will happen next?! Can someone send me an e-margarita on the rocks w/o salt, please?! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, good question RobThomas. I guess my point is that taking photos of anything beyond a self-absorbed profile pic for facebook/myspace is challenging.  And for the amateur photographer who may not have the professional or interpersonal skills to engage in a particular setting as a professional photographer would, it could be a frightening experience.<br />
My other point is is that it&#8217;s just so ironic.  It&#8217;s ironic that in a time when the average person has the resources at their fingertips to be their own historian, there is a resistance to the overexposure and overdocumenting of culture and history in the making.  Another ironic point is that we document the overdocumenting. Where does it end?! What will happen next?! Can someone send me an e-margarita on the rocks w/o salt, please?! <img src='http://laeastside.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: RobThomas</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22084</link>
		<dc:creator>RobThomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:11:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22084</guid>
		<description>My problem has been that cameras have not been used enough to stir up shit, and instead are used for socializing and, let&#039;s face it, self promotion.  Myspace and Facebook have most Americans using their fancy new technology to get riveting, surreal photos..of their selves.  50 different shots in front of the bathroom mirror.  Here&#039;s me smiling.  Here&#039;s me giving the smoochy look.  Here&#039;s my mean mug.  One with my tongue hanging out, like KISS.  A Heisman trophy pose.  One with my middle finger.  And, of course, a little sample of my tramp stamp.  Bhhapa, is your point really that we need more of this, and less pictures of social injustice!?!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My problem has been that cameras have not been used enough to stir up shit, and instead are used for socializing and, let&#8217;s face it, self promotion.  Myspace and Facebook have most Americans using their fancy new technology to get riveting, surreal photos..of their selves.  50 different shots in front of the bathroom mirror.  Here&#8217;s me smiling.  Here&#8217;s me giving the smoochy look.  Here&#8217;s my mean mug.  One with my tongue hanging out, like KISS.  A Heisman trophy pose.  One with my middle finger.  And, of course, a little sample of my tramp stamp.  Bhhapa, is your point really that we need more of this, and less pictures of social injustice!?!?</p>
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		<title>By: loveandhatela</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22079</link>
		<dc:creator>loveandhatela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 19:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22079</guid>
		<description>Im sorry but my personal opinion on photo taking &quot;in public view&quot; is okay- alright with me.
And like mi madre always told me ...&quot;No hagas algo bueno que aparesca malo o algo malo que aparesca bueno.&quot;

something i got from a website a few years back and saved for my reference:

The Ten Legal Commandments of Photography

I. Anyone in a public place can take pictures of anything they want. Public places include parks, sidewalks, malls, etc. Malls? Yeah. Even though it’s technically private property, being open to the public makes it public space.

II. If you are on public property, you can take pictures of private property. If a building, for example, is visible from the sidewalk, it’s fair game.

III. If you are on private property and are asked not to take pictures, you are obligated to honor that request. This includes posted signs.

IV. Sensitive government buildings (military bases, nuclear facilities) can prohibit photography if it is deemed a threat to national security.

V. People can be photographed if they are in public (without their consent) unless they have secluded themselves and can expect a reasonable degree of privacy. Kids swimming in a fountain? Okay. Somebody entering their PIN at the ATM? Not okay.

VI. The following can almost always be photographed from public places, despite popular opinion:

    * accident &amp; fire scenes, criminal activities
    * bridges &amp; other infrastructure, transportation facilities (i.e. airports)
    * industrial facilities, Superfund sites
    * public utilities, residential &amp; commercial buildings
    * children, celebrities, law enforcement officers
    * UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, Chuck Norris

VII. Although “security” is often given as the reason somebody doesn’t want you to take photos, it’s rarely valid. Taking a photo of a publicly visible subject does not constitute terrorism, nor does it infringe on a company’s trade secrets.

VIII. If you are challenged, you do not have to explain why you are taking pictures, nor to you have to disclose your identity (except in some cases when questioned by a law enforcement officer.)

IX. Private parties have very limited rights to detain you against your will, and can be subject to legal action if they harass you.

X. If someone tries to confiscate your camera and/or film, you don’t have to give it to them. If they take it by force or threaten you, they can be liable for things like theft and coercion. Even law enforcement officers need a court order.

-In the end im always camara ready in appearance (and i try to carry my 2 cameras with me at all times) - because &quot;big brother&quot; or el vato de la esquina is watching.

So don&#039;t pick your nose in the elevator :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Im sorry but my personal opinion on photo taking &#8220;in public view&#8221; is okay- alright with me.<br />
And like mi madre always told me &#8230;&#8221;No hagas algo bueno que aparesca malo o algo malo que aparesca bueno.&#8221;</p>
<p>something i got from a website a few years back and saved for my reference:</p>
<p>The Ten Legal Commandments of Photography</p>
<p>I. Anyone in a public place can take pictures of anything they want. Public places include parks, sidewalks, malls, etc. Malls? Yeah. Even though it’s technically private property, being open to the public makes it public space.</p>
<p>II. If you are on public property, you can take pictures of private property. If a building, for example, is visible from the sidewalk, it’s fair game.</p>
<p>III. If you are on private property and are asked not to take pictures, you are obligated to honor that request. This includes posted signs.</p>
<p>IV. Sensitive government buildings (military bases, nuclear facilities) can prohibit photography if it is deemed a threat to national security.</p>
<p>V. People can be photographed if they are in public (without their consent) unless they have secluded themselves and can expect a reasonable degree of privacy. Kids swimming in a fountain? Okay. Somebody entering their PIN at the ATM? Not okay.</p>
<p>VI. The following can almost always be photographed from public places, despite popular opinion:</p>
<p>    * accident &amp; fire scenes, criminal activities<br />
    * bridges &amp; other infrastructure, transportation facilities (i.e. airports)<br />
    * industrial facilities, Superfund sites<br />
    * public utilities, residential &amp; commercial buildings<br />
    * children, celebrities, law enforcement officers<br />
    * UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, Chuck Norris</p>
<p>VII. Although “security” is often given as the reason somebody doesn’t want you to take photos, it’s rarely valid. Taking a photo of a publicly visible subject does not constitute terrorism, nor does it infringe on a company’s trade secrets.</p>
<p>VIII. If you are challenged, you do not have to explain why you are taking pictures, nor to you have to disclose your identity (except in some cases when questioned by a law enforcement officer.)</p>
<p>IX. Private parties have very limited rights to detain you against your will, and can be subject to legal action if they harass you.</p>
<p>X. If someone tries to confiscate your camera and/or film, you don’t have to give it to them. If they take it by force or threaten you, they can be liable for things like theft and coercion. Even law enforcement officers need a court order.</p>
<p>-In the end im always camara ready in appearance (and i try to carry my 2 cameras with me at all times) &#8211; because &#8220;big brother&#8221; or el vato de la esquina is watching.</p>
<p>So don&#8217;t pick your nose in the elevator <img src='http://laeastside.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: rolo</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22078</link>
		<dc:creator>rolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22078</guid>
		<description>so we are victims of our own actions? I have to admit being guitly to some extent, i used to get so excited about this blog that i would go out and tell friends, that dont even live in the east side and probably dont deseve to know bout all the good stuff down here. I dont live in the eastside, i live in the south bay, but being that i was born in the east, i think i deserve to read and be part of the eastside atleast on the weekends when i saty with my girl lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so we are victims of our own actions? I have to admit being guitly to some extent, i used to get so excited about this blog that i would go out and tell friends, that dont even live in the east side and probably dont deseve to know bout all the good stuff down here. I dont live in the eastside, i live in the south bay, but being that i was born in the east, i think i deserve to read and be part of the eastside atleast on the weekends when i saty with my girl lol.</p>
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		<title>By: Victoria</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22077</link>
		<dc:creator>Victoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22077</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this post---important topic!  When I was in Cuba (where I was not supposed to be according to my country&#039;s rules)--taking pictures was a very touchy subject.  No one said anything, but I could just tell because people cleared out of my range, when I lifted my camera.  Also, at the same sex marriage day in West LA, I had to recognize that a picture of this private moment could ruin someone&#039;s entire life. The men fixing the roof on the house next to mine in Boyle Heights, got weird when I was taking pictures of them---so I had to go and explain that I was an artist and that I would use it in a painting or drawing.  Due to the uncomfortableness that some pictures have caused, I have felt it best not to use them. Maybe with time passing, it will be different. Maybe going to Cuba won&#039;t be a $10,000 fine anymore--or people that are gay can be open in our society. Can we describe what we are feeling in a blog or experiencing in the moment without having a picture to back it up or a map-link to point out its location?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post&#8212;important topic!  When I was in Cuba (where I was not supposed to be according to my country&#8217;s rules)&#8211;taking pictures was a very touchy subject.  No one said anything, but I could just tell because people cleared out of my range, when I lifted my camera.  Also, at the same sex marriage day in West LA, I had to recognize that a picture of this private moment could ruin someone&#8217;s entire life. The men fixing the roof on the house next to mine in Boyle Heights, got weird when I was taking pictures of them&#8212;so I had to go and explain that I was an artist and that I would use it in a painting or drawing.  Due to the uncomfortableness that some pictures have caused, I have felt it best not to use them. Maybe with time passing, it will be different. Maybe going to Cuba won&#8217;t be a $10,000 fine anymore&#8211;or people that are gay can be open in our society. Can we describe what we are feeling in a blog or experiencing in the moment without having a picture to back it up or a map-link to point out its location?</p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/11/the-dentrimental-downer-of-the-digital-camera/comment-page-1/#comment-22076</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=9950#comment-22076</guid>
		<description>The double edged sword of exposure on the eastside.  A while back we started a graffiti sanctuary in the alleys behind atlantic blvd, to give kids a place to express themselves legitimately.  The alleys had been organically a piecing yard for decades (with owner consent), and when elacamp did a mural there thru the supervisor&#039;s office we got public works to agree to not buff the graffiti murals that filled the alley like they used to do once or twice a year.

Then I began inviting others to come paint there, and the word spread.  At the same time taggers began killing innocent bystanders, and the supervisor got pissed and now these alleys are buffed constantly. The lame thing is that other alleyes filled with chicken scratch and gang tags have been left untouched, but this one ful of art is now burned because of exposure. Not to mention the fact that this is a total waste of finite resources (like buffing the LA river, while 2 art projects have been halted due to lack of funding) needed to improve other forms of blight in Eastlos.

BTW, the 2 art projects i noted as being stalled for lack of funding both cost less than $8,000, whereas it cost millions to buff the LA river. What a damn shame.

I have gotten a lot of shite taking flics without asking, I try to, but many folks doing extra legal stuff or who are socially ostracized are fearful of you being the chota, its just a sad fact of life here.

Those vendors were cool people, they kicked me down with free comida once when i was fixing a tag on the homie chose&#039;s mural nearby. Its a shame that they are now burned, as is what happens with many things that working class people create in this city. I have tons of things i have withheld sharing due to my fear of burning them. A while back that homeless encampment in baldwin park was burned because some dumbas grad student let everyone know about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The double edged sword of exposure on the eastside.  A while back we started a graffiti sanctuary in the alleys behind atlantic blvd, to give kids a place to express themselves legitimately.  The alleys had been organically a piecing yard for decades (with owner consent), and when elacamp did a mural there thru the supervisor&#8217;s office we got public works to agree to not buff the graffiti murals that filled the alley like they used to do once or twice a year.</p>
<p>Then I began inviting others to come paint there, and the word spread.  At the same time taggers began killing innocent bystanders, and the supervisor got pissed and now these alleys are buffed constantly. The lame thing is that other alleyes filled with chicken scratch and gang tags have been left untouched, but this one ful of art is now burned because of exposure. Not to mention the fact that this is a total waste of finite resources (like buffing the LA river, while 2 art projects have been halted due to lack of funding) needed to improve other forms of blight in Eastlos.</p>
<p>BTW, the 2 art projects i noted as being stalled for lack of funding both cost less than $8,000, whereas it cost millions to buff the LA river. What a damn shame.</p>
<p>I have gotten a lot of shite taking flics without asking, I try to, but many folks doing extra legal stuff or who are socially ostracized are fearful of you being the chota, its just a sad fact of life here.</p>
<p>Those vendors were cool people, they kicked me down with free comida once when i was fixing a tag on the homie chose&#8217;s mural nearby. Its a shame that they are now burned, as is what happens with many things that working class people create in this city. I have tons of things i have withheld sharing due to my fear of burning them. A while back that homeless encampment in baldwin park was burned because some dumbas grad student let everyone know about it.</p>
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