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	<title>Comments on: The mural wars continue</title>
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	<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/</link>
	<description>Life Beyond The River</description>
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		<title>By: diane</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-20101</link>
		<dc:creator>diane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 03:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-20101</guid>
		<description>awww, that mural is one of my earliest memories. i had no idea where it was until i was older and realized those huge people i saw while mom was driving us home from grandma&#039;s. so sad that they threw paint over it. i&#039;m not sure who those taggers are but obviously they don&#039;t feel the connection the neighborhood has felt with it for 20+ years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>awww, that mural is one of my earliest memories. i had no idea where it was until i was older and realized those huge people i saw while mom was driving us home from grandma&#8217;s. so sad that they threw paint over it. i&#8217;m not sure who those taggers are but obviously they don&#8217;t feel the connection the neighborhood has felt with it for 20+ years.</p>
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		<title>By: Art</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19947</link>
		<dc:creator>Art</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19947</guid>
		<description>I love this mural and fond memories of it as well, i remember seeing the eastlos streetscapers paint it when I was younger and always admired it.  

Like mentioned it was some young dumbass taggers who did that. I have seen that crew BTC pieced in a much better style on walls, too bad whoever from this crew did this was too concerned with trying to catch fame to respect quality art.

They use a fire extinguisher or super soaker filled with diluted paint to make tags like that for hard to cover larger surfaces higher up. That medium for tagging has recently become popular, and is one of the many ways vandalism has changed as a response to aggressive graffiti abatement programs that buffed everything.  They began painting over everything, including the generally secluded places where writers could paint quality pieces that took time.  This occurred just when tagbanging began blowing up, and combined these 2 developments in LA graffiti basically ate away at the piecing-art aspect of the medium in Los Angeles. And funding for art programs and school art classes continued to decline, and youth programs never got the funding they needed to adequately address the huge juvenile delinquincy problem (aka poor kids with nothing to do). But graffiti did not go away, it just became more socially deviant, violent and destructive with the collabo-breakdancing-piecer element taking a backseat.

Kids did not just stop painting because it got buffed quicker, and the environmental factors that lead kids to destroy another&#039;s property (even if it is sometimes art) did not go away, they probably got worse.  But the incentive was gone to paint nice pieces because they got erased quickly, so style based fame in graffiti quickly took a back seat to who bombed and tagged more (they both always existed in LA graffiti, but just look at the the ages of writers who turned their graff into an art career is a pretty good indicator of how that gateway dwindled after the mid 90s).  So rather than using 10 cans and a few hours to do a badass piece that may get buffed quickly, it became much better in terms of graff fame to use those same cans and time to tag half the city rather than one spot. The worst part is that the positive part of graff I saw and experienced, which was seeing the dysfunctional kids who came into the medium for pure criminality get turned onto and pretty good at art became much more rare, whereas the outright criminality became much more prevalent (tagbanging, being basically a gangster who tags rather than claims a neighborhood).

This trend contiinues on, art programs still are neglected and politicos still vow to get &quot;tough on graffiti&quot; despite every past &quot;get tough&quot; program being abysmal failures.  Taggers are basically gangbanging junior nowadays, shooting at each other and emulating the cholo culture they dont full-on engage in but still respect and imitate.  The funding for graffiti abatement is lopsided towards painting everything with shitty beige buff paint rather than proactively stopping kids from tsgging walls.  So the spaces where graff existed got smaller and was guarded more fiercely, and no wviolently, by writers; and the places that were once taboo to tag such as murals are seen as a place where one&#039;s tag will run much longer by opportunistic writers.

The kind of selfishness and egomania it takes for one to rationalize defacing one of eastlos&#039; most famous murals and buildings for a shitty tag that doesnt even look nice is a reflection of the narcicism driven culture we live in. Like when someone cuts you off in line and dogs you for it, or how buying hummers and flipping homes blinded people to the impending doom making up BS money created, pure greed and selfishness for a short burst of wealth that has now created long term poverty.

I saw this selfishness and negativity overcome something I loved and helped me get thru my struggles, graffiti. It never was a good thing unless you only did permission walls, and most writers have always been self absorbed assholes, but the artistic vein of graff that turned me on is now muted by all the selfish negativity.  We had celebrated a half decade of keeping an open space for kids to practice graffiti recently, only to have it ruined by fuckfaces who&#039;d rather flash a gun or hurt somebody than develop the skills to excel in graffiti (something theyre supposedly down for) through creating tight work.  The county now cites these dudes pulling guns on code enforcement for legal walls and hitting innocents with strays as why they are rebeginning to buff these walls we foguth so hard to make open for kids to develop their skills.

There is no logic to this act, like much of graffiti, it is a medium that is born from and caters to social deviance.  But even thing that are the most destructive have good aspects, I still see graffiti as holding the potential to turn a lot of deviant youth into positive action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this mural and fond memories of it as well, i remember seeing the eastlos streetscapers paint it when I was younger and always admired it.  </p>
<p>Like mentioned it was some young dumbass taggers who did that. I have seen that crew BTC pieced in a much better style on walls, too bad whoever from this crew did this was too concerned with trying to catch fame to respect quality art.</p>
<p>They use a fire extinguisher or super soaker filled with diluted paint to make tags like that for hard to cover larger surfaces higher up. That medium for tagging has recently become popular, and is one of the many ways vandalism has changed as a response to aggressive graffiti abatement programs that buffed everything.  They began painting over everything, including the generally secluded places where writers could paint quality pieces that took time.  This occurred just when tagbanging began blowing up, and combined these 2 developments in LA graffiti basically ate away at the piecing-art aspect of the medium in Los Angeles. And funding for art programs and school art classes continued to decline, and youth programs never got the funding they needed to adequately address the huge juvenile delinquincy problem (aka poor kids with nothing to do). But graffiti did not go away, it just became more socially deviant, violent and destructive with the collabo-breakdancing-piecer element taking a backseat.</p>
<p>Kids did not just stop painting because it got buffed quicker, and the environmental factors that lead kids to destroy another&#8217;s property (even if it is sometimes art) did not go away, they probably got worse.  But the incentive was gone to paint nice pieces because they got erased quickly, so style based fame in graffiti quickly took a back seat to who bombed and tagged more (they both always existed in LA graffiti, but just look at the the ages of writers who turned their graff into an art career is a pretty good indicator of how that gateway dwindled after the mid 90s).  So rather than using 10 cans and a few hours to do a badass piece that may get buffed quickly, it became much better in terms of graff fame to use those same cans and time to tag half the city rather than one spot. The worst part is that the positive part of graff I saw and experienced, which was seeing the dysfunctional kids who came into the medium for pure criminality get turned onto and pretty good at art became much more rare, whereas the outright criminality became much more prevalent (tagbanging, being basically a gangster who tags rather than claims a neighborhood).</p>
<p>This trend contiinues on, art programs still are neglected and politicos still vow to get &#8220;tough on graffiti&#8221; despite every past &#8220;get tough&#8221; program being abysmal failures.  Taggers are basically gangbanging junior nowadays, shooting at each other and emulating the cholo culture they dont full-on engage in but still respect and imitate.  The funding for graffiti abatement is lopsided towards painting everything with shitty beige buff paint rather than proactively stopping kids from tsgging walls.  So the spaces where graff existed got smaller and was guarded more fiercely, and no wviolently, by writers; and the places that were once taboo to tag such as murals are seen as a place where one&#8217;s tag will run much longer by opportunistic writers.</p>
<p>The kind of selfishness and egomania it takes for one to rationalize defacing one of eastlos&#8217; most famous murals and buildings for a shitty tag that doesnt even look nice is a reflection of the narcicism driven culture we live in. Like when someone cuts you off in line and dogs you for it, or how buying hummers and flipping homes blinded people to the impending doom making up BS money created, pure greed and selfishness for a short burst of wealth that has now created long term poverty.</p>
<p>I saw this selfishness and negativity overcome something I loved and helped me get thru my struggles, graffiti. It never was a good thing unless you only did permission walls, and most writers have always been self absorbed assholes, but the artistic vein of graff that turned me on is now muted by all the selfish negativity.  We had celebrated a half decade of keeping an open space for kids to practice graffiti recently, only to have it ruined by fuckfaces who&#8217;d rather flash a gun or hurt somebody than develop the skills to excel in graffiti (something theyre supposedly down for) through creating tight work.  The county now cites these dudes pulling guns on code enforcement for legal walls and hitting innocents with strays as why they are rebeginning to buff these walls we foguth so hard to make open for kids to develop their skills.</p>
<p>There is no logic to this act, like much of graffiti, it is a medium that is born from and caters to social deviance.  But even thing that are the most destructive have good aspects, I still see graffiti as holding the potential to turn a lot of deviant youth into positive action.</p>
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		<title>By: Abraham</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19946</link>
		<dc:creator>Abraham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19946</guid>
		<description>Nothing irritates me more than seeing those ugly fertilizer/super soaker tags over classic murals. Some writers are losing respect. I rarely saw murals get bombed on, now I&#039;ve seen tags over Virgin Mary murals, murals of Cesar Chavez, and others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing irritates me more than seeing those ugly fertilizer/super soaker tags over classic murals. Some writers are losing respect. I rarely saw murals get bombed on, now I&#8217;ve seen tags over Virgin Mary murals, murals of Cesar Chavez, and others.</p>
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		<title>By: loveandhatela</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19945</link>
		<dc:creator>loveandhatela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19945</guid>
		<description>my anti-spam word was &quot;cuete&quot; lol

I love the mural of Anthony Quinn over on 3rd street at Broadway on the side of the  Victor Clothing bldg.

 I hate what has happened to the murals on the Hollywood fwy thru downtown that were first put up for the 1984 LA Summer Olympics.
I especially liked the one with the space and planets theme, some of the these murals have been painted over and others have been sadly tagged up.
These knuckle heads need a &quot;cuete&quot; up their butt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my anti-spam word was &#8220;cuete&#8221; lol</p>
<p>I love the mural of Anthony Quinn over on 3rd street at Broadway on the side of the  Victor Clothing bldg.</p>
<p> I hate what has happened to the murals on the Hollywood fwy thru downtown that were first put up for the 1984 LA Summer Olympics.<br />
I especially liked the one with the space and planets theme, some of the these murals have been painted over and others have been sadly tagged up.<br />
These knuckle heads need a &#8220;cuete&#8221; up their butt.</p>
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		<title>By: Calamitee</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19943</link>
		<dc:creator>Calamitee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19943</guid>
		<description>EastSideClover is a big part of boyle heights lincon heights east la and beyond to like the socalled nela part of town which will alway&#039;s be considered original east la</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EastSideClover is a big part of boyle heights lincon heights east la and beyond to like the socalled nela part of town which will alway&#8217;s be considered original east la</p>
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		<title>By: las pinas</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19941</link>
		<dc:creator>las pinas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19941</guid>
		<description>That mural was (is) a benchmark for the community, a testimony to people&#039;s celebrating their culture. I have trouble getting my head around a senseless defiling of it for the sake of a shallow statement by vandals. It&#039;s a lot like, though maybe not as rash as the Taliban dynamiting those Two Buddhas in the Bamyan Valley of Afghanistan. Maybe that comparison is over the top? Let&#039;s hope so...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That mural was (is) a benchmark for the community, a testimony to people&#8217;s celebrating their culture. I have trouble getting my head around a senseless defiling of it for the sake of a shallow statement by vandals. It&#8217;s a lot like, though maybe not as rash as the Taliban dynamiting those Two Buddhas in the Bamyan Valley of Afghanistan. Maybe that comparison is over the top? Let&#8217;s hope so&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: jimmy tumors</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19940</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmy tumors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19940</guid>
		<description>i could totally see if they defaced the older mural with something that at least looks like they put some work into making it look good. but hell, there\&#039;s no shortage of walls and billboards around without murals on them they could\&#039;ve thrown up on. then again, if they had, no one would be talking about it and them......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i could totally see if they defaced the older mural with something that at least looks like they put some work into making it look good. but hell, there\&#8217;s no shortage of walls and billboards around without murals on them they could\&#8217;ve thrown up on. then again, if they had, no one would be talking about it and them&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: alienation</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19939</link>
		<dc:creator>alienation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19939</guid>
		<description>Persistence of Vision makes both beauty and ugliness invisible, if you look at it long enough.  The challenge of culture is making the old things new and fresh to the next generation.

The Destructive Impulse, some say, is also a creative impulse.  Not really true, but, it&#039;s a poetic justification for the inevitable damage of power struggles.

I think these 20-foot tall letters are the popular thing right now.  They&#039;re all over the place.  Ugly as hell, but maybe that&#039;s intentional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Persistence of Vision makes both beauty and ugliness invisible, if you look at it long enough.  The challenge of culture is making the old things new and fresh to the next generation.</p>
<p>The Destructive Impulse, some say, is also a creative impulse.  Not really true, but, it&#8217;s a poetic justification for the inevitable damage of power struggles.</p>
<p>I think these 20-foot tall letters are the popular thing right now.  They&#8217;re all over the place.  Ugly as hell, but maybe that&#8217;s intentional.</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Smith</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19938</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19938</guid>
		<description>donquixote: B T C K which I believe stands for Big Time Criminal Krew the last time I saw it completely spelled out by one of the &quot;writers&quot; among my students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>donquixote: B T C K which I believe stands for Big Time Criminal Krew the last time I saw it completely spelled out by one of the &#8220;writers&#8221; among my students.</p>
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		<title>By: chimatli</title>
		<link>http://laeastside.com/2009/07/the-mural-wars-continue/comment-page-1/#comment-19937</link>
		<dc:creator>chimatli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://laeastside.com/?p=7567#comment-19937</guid>
		<description>As sad as it is to see murals defaced by badly thrown up tags, I have to say, the billboard is way more obnoxious and ugly. Get rid of graffiti, ban billboards!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As sad as it is to see murals defaced by badly thrown up tags, I have to say, the billboard is way more obnoxious and ugly. Get rid of graffiti, ban billboards!</p>
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