I’ve tried my best to tolerate this new bike Kulture that has made camp in LA, attempted to see the positive aspects it can contribute to our city, but more and more I just can’t stand the way it manifests itself. And it saddens me to see how such a great idea can turn into shit so quickly: a practical and healthy option that challenges the car culture devolves into a sanctimonious act of liberal defiance, doused with a heavy dose of machismo. I’m pretty sure I’ll regret writing this but fuck it; the unnecessary baggage of an otherwise worthy goal needs to be called out.
Before you conclude I hate bike riders, let me just say that even though I’m mostly a pedestrian and car driver, I also ride a bike. Some of my friends are bike riders, so I can’t be a bikeist! And when I was around 12, I built my own chrome and red GT Pro Series BMX that I pieced together from parts I bought at the Rosemead Swap Meet. It was my pride and joy, up until the day it got stolen. I even contributed to an art installation that dealt with this very issue. So yeah, I understand the love one can have for a bike.
But this bike Kulture stuff and the attitudes they bring to the city is just beyond me: why is a form of transportation being elevated to an ideology? How did the simple pleasure of bike riding become an excuse for kids to get all moralistic against cars? Is the world so bereft of positive values that the notion of bike riding can take on such a significant role as an identity marker? It must be lean times in the marketplace of meaning when you so deeply identify with the way you get from point A to point B, even at the expense of the rest of the people around you.
Though there are a few reasons to critique this new bike Kulture in LA, the one thing that really puzzles me is the way the bike ideologues have taken on the worst traits of the rude FTW driver and the cocky yes-I-am-immortal Jr. High School pedestrian. If you’re trying to get people out of their cars, doesn’t it make sense to play nice and share the road with the rest of us?
This weekend I encountered one of the worst examples of the rude bike rider, a young and hip Latina seemingly buoyed on her sense of two wheel superiority. Even though Monte Vista in HLP is wide enough to fit both cars and bikes, she chose to stay in the traffic lane. Fair enough, “you are traffic”. But then she proceeded to reach into her backpack to look for something, slowing down to a crawl as she pretended to rummage through her stuff for that one thing she needed immediately . Even though she could have easily pulled over to the right (there weren’t even any cars parked on this stretch) she stayed in the middle of the traffic lane as if to prove some point, and never pulled anything out. Yeah, I get it, I’m the chump going 5 mph because you hate my transportation. This went on for a little bit, her fellow bike rider had already pulled over and I think was trying to get her to stop being a jerk, to no avail. At the 4 way stop sign ahead, she suddenly sped up -without stopping- to force a left-turning truck to hit the brakes so as to not hit her. While other drivers were taken aback by the potential disaster that had just been averted, she was laughing at how much power her bike riding body was wielding. She ran the next stop sign as well, this time holding her hand out to a braking car. It would be easy to say this was just a solitary example of a jerk but I think there’s something about the bike Kulture that encourages this sort of anti-everyone else behavior.
If this were the first time I’ve encountered this animosity towards car drivers, that would be one thing. But I’ve had my fair number of encounters with these young bike punks to know its not isolated. It’s odd mostly because there are some good and thoughtful projects within the biking scene, like the great resources of the Bike Kitchen and the Bike Oven that (at least to my knowledge) don’t encourage this sort of behavior. If you wanted to block my car in for some protest or action ala Critical Mass, I would understand. Why not prove your pro-bike point like that one rider I usually see passing up all the cars stuck in a traffic jam? But to deliberately increase the level of messed-uped-ness in the city, and become just like all the other thoughtless car driving fools that hate on bike riders, now that’s just wrong.
PS. For the record, I took a picture of this person when we finally managed to get by, and she responded by saying “Hey don’t do that.” I wanted to post the picture, but in the interest of not contributing to messed-up-ness and since my friend thought that would be pretty mean, I’m keeping it offline.
I think: just as there are shitty drivers, there are shitty bicyclists. And since it seems(?) that more people are on bikes, so more assholes by sheer numbers.
?Qué no?
But yeah, I stay safe out there. I’m not going to piss off a driver just to make a “point.” Fuck that, I need to get to work/school/party.
I totally hear you. Being a recreational rider and part time bike commuter I’ve seen exactly what you are talking about. Even on Critical Mass rides I see some peeps act like jerks to car drivers, I thought the point of Critical Mass was to prove that riding a bike was a great alternative, safe and fun. When some decide to ride on the opposite side of the road, take up three lanes when all we need is one or two, we are just looking like jerks on bikes.
I do think more peeps will end up on bikes as gas prices rise. Thus there will be more jerks and unfortunately is will affect good riders. Like the Latino man in your photo, Raza is already commuting in big numbers on bikes. They aren’t on the fancy fixed gear, or vintage, imported bikes most of the jerks are on, they are truly just getting around town. Worst case scenario: Drivers might want to get back at a jerk bike rider and because one might look like they have a trust fund ready for an attorney and the other looks they are here without papeles, who do you think might get bumped off the road?
At the same time, bike riders do put up with a lot of shit from drivers who are too busy on cell phones and changing radio stations. This kind of stuff is more scary than having to wait a few extra seconds or minutes ’cause of one jerk bike rider. Your car can kill. A bike can just delay or piss you off.
Everybody, just be cool.
I’m in the alternative transport community. One of the problems I have with bike kulture is it seems like all of them have cars. I’m anti-car.
Also they seem to be very intolerant of the right of public transit riders. In fact bike people seemed obsessed with talking crap about public transit. Bike people who have cars seem very obsessed with talking about the mode of transport that many people take because that’s the only way they can get to work or school or wherever it is that have to go.
While the alt transit community seems very supportive of bike kulture the opposite does not seem to be true.
Also I pretty much resent a group of people trying to paint themselves as oppressed when all they have to do is get off their fucking bike.
Oh and the minorities in the movement they are even more interesting pieces of work they are the same people of color who refuse to talk about or even entertain the idea of racism in America, but they will put up 1000 word post on the oppression of cyclist…are you fucking kidding me. You are a person of color and you can see cyclist oppression, but you don’t want to hear about or even discuss people of color oppression. The insanity.
Browne
I was wondering, can I bring my car on a Critical Mass ride?
Oh, sorry, guess not.
In the 1960s, bikes, especially white bikes, were a big symbol of radicalism.
I wrote a piece about it here
can I bring my car on a Critical Mass ride? cwm
Of course you can as long as it’s eco AND cool, like a diesel veggie oil running mercedes or a prius, if it’s not cool and eco, well if it’s a mini cooper it’s also ok, because those are pretty cool…
Browne
Phew! That’s good! I’m glad I can bring my car. It’s not eco, but it is kinda cool in the sense that it’s something that somebody’s grampa would drive (if fact, we bought it from an old Romanian grampa in our neighborhood). Being grampa friendly should definitely count for something, right?! 🙂
Booooo. Post the picture of her!
I totally agree with Browne about some cyclists acting as though they are uber oppressed just because they ride a bike. EVERY TIME I’ve seen a bicyclist pulled-over by a cop it has been a Mexicano for most likely some frivolous reason. I’ve never seen a “roadie” (you know those spandex clothed guys) pulled over.
Chavo, you should do a *new* Bike Art Project. See how the times have changed in the past 3 years. Though, you’ll probably hate on me because I do ride a track bike and like it. 😕
When I get a chance I”ll send you a GIS map of pedestrian & cyclist deaths in L.A, gotta look in my old GIS files. You won’t be surprised to know that Latino males, like the senor with the Nike cap posted on your post, have the highest mortality rate on bikes.
I do agree with Pachuco 3000, this population tends to be overlooked when discussing bicycle master plans/policy. we need to change this.
Thanks for bringing up this topic. The majority of bike riders seem cool, but then you
get jerks like the ones dressed all in black, on black bikes with no lights, riding at night and breaking all traffic laws, who get furious at drivers who don’t see them.
There just seems to be too many characters around who are extremely focused and aware of every single one of their rights, while being ignorant and/or disinterested in any of their responsibilities
I cycle to work, and I actually ride a bike AT work, but I still don’t consider myself a hardcore cyclist. The female in your story seems part jerk, part suicidal, and part ignorant of bike laws.
I’ve seen alot of cyclists that will ignore stop signs as if they don’t pertain to them…which I dont understand. I guess they are “traffic” when they want to ride in the street, and “pedestrian” when they want to cross the street without stopping.
I don’t live in LA, I live in the OC, and I often do see alot of Latinos that are stopped by the police for infractions. But in honesty it is because they do NOT pay any attention to bike laws. They ride on the sidewalks, against traffic, no lights, ears plugged with headphones, all kinds of things that you are not allowed to do while riding a bike in public areas.
I have no problem with how you get around. IMO if you wanna pay $4 a gallon for gas, good on you, but I’ll save my money for trips on the weekend, viva Las Vegas (Plus my work pays $2 a day to ride a bike to work and it’s only 6 miles away) But I have had people actually throw things at me while I was out riding to work. I have been run off the road by some moron in a car that figured I had no right sharing his lane (even though I was basically in the gutter), causing me to try to get onto the curb (without a cutout) at such an angle that my rear tire hit, bike toppled, I rolled up over my bike and slid back first into a fire hydrant. The car just kept going, I guess he won that round.
You will find idiots be it in the car, on a bike, or public transportation. Unfortunately a large portion of CA seems to be bred to not care about anything but themselves.
“It must be lean times in the marketplace of meaning when you so deeply identify with the way you get from point A to point B, even at the expense of the rest of the people around you.”
You just named off about 50% of the driving public in LA who drive enormous SUVs, sport cars, status symbols all of which are outright gas guzzlers and fat people enablers. And the kicker is none of these people would be caught dead in a car of less perceived stature. Car drivers are just filthy animals. Bicycle Riders are the bridge between humans and pure energy.
As someone who bikes to work 4 out 5 days a week and could be described as a “bike commuter” since 1994, I totally agree with everything you say.
Just the other week during the one day I drive to work I nearly hit one of these “cyclists” because they blew completely blew a red light.
I would have felt horrible for hurting someone but at the same time, I would have had a very hard time being sympathetic for someone’s idiocy.
“Car drivers are just filthy animals.” And right on cue, Barfaloo proves my point.
Love Hate
Having dealt with a ton of bicycle people thru sharing a space with a bicycle collective I would have to say just how moralistic bike Kulture often is, not everyone but lots of them. If Mormans were hip on their bikes allot of these hipster cyclist would be Mormans fundamentalist.
THis whole post and comment thread is backed with a lot of bullshit. “Bike Kulture”?! What the fuck are you talking about dude?
One dumb person riding a bike and you’re trying to invent a whole new category of human being to write off?
Do I have to be a poor immigrant in order to like riding my bike to work every day, lest I become one of the horrible members of the “Bike Kulture”? I guess I better leave it to you bicycle purists in your cars being frustrated by having to tap the brake with your poor, tired, little toe for less than a second when you drive behind me while I reach for my cell phone in my huge hipster purse.
Having dealt with a ton of people through running a bike repair collective – I would have to say that the reasons people choose to ride bikes these days are as plentiful as the grains of sand on a beach. We come together in a noncommercial atmosphere to work with each other and share our collective knowledge about fixing and maintaining bikes, and also to simply socialize.
There are a few “holier than thou” bike riders out there, but don’t let their self-righteousness get in the way of the truth about cycling.
I just wanted to make two points:
First, if I hear somebody say that they are oppressed because they ride a bike, I’m going to run out and rent the nearest Hummer and come back and run them over! Puuleezzeee!!
Second, El Chavo, it occurred to me that the girl on the bicycle might not have been trying to piss you off because she was biking and you were driving so much as because you are an adult and she’s a youngster. With all due respect, my friend, she probably only had to take one look at you in order to see that all she had to do was slow down a bit in order to send you into an angry frenzy of social commentary and analysis! She’s probably reading this right now, cracking up! (Sorry, but I think that this is a strong likelihood… remember, one of the great things about being a teenager is that you can piss off adults almost immediately!!! 🙂 She just had to hit your “old man” button and then boing!!! )
Hmmm. Monte Vista has dotted-yellow lanes. Doesn’t sound like a problem with bicyclists to me. Sounds like you don’t know how to change lanes and go around people. I understand though. Car drivers often seem unaware that they can change lanes.
I wonder, how many times has a person in a car done something stupid while you’re driving? I bet a LOT more frequently than a cyclist. Funny how one incident with a cyclist creates a whole “Bike Kulture” (whatever the hell that means) prejudice out of you. Where are your rants about “Kar Kulture” for all the morons in BMWs who cut you off every week?
Oh. Wait. You can’t hate people in cars, because you’re one of them. It’s easier to create a new label, a new prejudice, a new “category” of OTHER people to loathe. Blame the bicycle riders! (But you get to squeeze-in your little story about your GT so you can seem “bicycle friendly”. Riiiight. Sort of like when people start stories with, “I’m not a racist, BUT…”)
I’m not impressed.
Hey Chavo, I think you touched some nerves on individuals who have social issues that go beyond cars vs. bikes.
This all makes me realize that on the road now I have to be on the lookout for
a-holes on four wheels AND two wheels.
Uh, Monte Vista is a single lane road so no, you can neither pass up cars or bikes.
It’s interesting how offended some bike riders are, I’m quite surprised by it. I know tons of people that ride bikes, have started bike collectives and have helped start some of the bike movements in this city and their critiques are similar to El Chavo. I have talked to some women that have felt groups like Midnight Ridazz have turned kinda macho.
The original essay and the Recognize project was put up on the C.I.C.L.E. site a couple of years ago. Where was the outrage then?
@chimatli
Ridazz = Macho? I think not. I’ve seen more women than ever on the last MR ride.
Just because there’s one “douche bag”, it doesn’t represent everyone on bikes. I think this article has given people fuel to think about where they stand on cycling and how they want improve and educate other cyclists to be better riders.
P.S. Car Kultur sux. Ride your bike.
I think you’re doing a bit too broad of an extrapolation in taking this incident and applying it to the whole, but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion and I wish people would refrain from attacking you for that.
Personally I’m not sure if I qualify as a kard-karrying member of this “bike kulture” of which you speak (mainly because my advanced age puts me way out of that target demographic), but I am a pretty dedicated urban cyclist both for work and play and it would be easy to extrapolate my safety-first (or at least second) practices and apply them positively to the whole just as you’ve made your solitary contact apply negatively to the whole.
Instead of being pigeonholed as a proponent of some sort of movement, fundamentally I see myself just a citizen who’s made a choice to ride his bike instead of drive his truck. If more people want to follow my lead, cool. If not, cool. I’m not on some sort of righteous trip trying to change the world — certainly not when I can’t even change the glacial process required by the city to lay down a bike lane.
I’m not averse to rolling through an intersection without coming to a full stop when I can do so without impacting any other cars or peds in the vicinity, but I’m also not some lane-hog perpetually averse to riding in the doorzone or even in the occasional gutter if I can do so safely. Overall I like to think of myself as pretty conscientious accommodating and aware and law abiding, and for damn sure if I had to get something out of my bag I’d pull the hell over not only for my own safety but because I don’t want to inconvenience anyone around me. To you I’m the exception to that rule.
The bottom line is how I interact with my fellow motorists is dictated on how they interact with me. Respect and share and all’s good. Don’t and I’m ready to defend my right to the road.
Most bikers are also drivers (or car riders) and anyone that claims they’re not just has to wait some time before they need access to a car. The point of this post was to call attention to the worst traits bike ideologues are taking on, a macho FTW approach this is short-sighted and just as stupid when they do as when some meathead car jerk is terrorizing everyone else. (And for the record, women can be macho as well!) It’s not just the one incident, but a pretty standard behavior the the bike scene people keep chalking up to those few rowdy kids, rather than a callous disregard for anyone not on bikes. Nobody is responsible for the actions of that girl except herself, but as the comments here prove, many are very quick to defend deliberately messed up and dangerous behavior just because “car culture sux”.
You can blame my tired little toe or that I don’t know how to change lanes, or that I just want to bash on riders. Whatever suits your needs. But for the sake of your cause, you might also try seeing and critiquing a very real part of your scene; the moralistic anti-driver jerks that don’t understand the concept of sharing the road.
Hi Borfo,
I agree car culture does suck. I would love to live in a city that was not based on individual car ownership. However, just because someone rides a bike doesn’t make them automatically free from critique. The tendencies in larger society can sometimes manifest themselves in even the most progressive and liberating organizations.
I have no direct experience with Midnight Ridazz, I’m passing on information from people who’d probably not want me to state who they are. My comments are based on discussions I’ve had with lots of bike folks who were instrumental in promoting bike riding here in Los Angeles.
Chimatli,
(excuse my run on sentences)
I agree with you. I think that there needs to be some focus addressed towards proper road etiquette for cyclists. Similarly I think there needs to be more of an awareness of the rights of cyclists on the road by motorists, who, from my observation, have no idea that cyclists do in fact have rights to the road and are not taken seriously. In fact I think most motorists scoff at cyclists as being jobless freaks who are just playing around and not taking life seriously, when in fact those people need to try to ride bicycles in a group setting in this city and realize how much fun and practical it can be. I want to see a change, and it is slowly happening. I guess I get defensive if I see others pooing on my ideal.
And to Chavo. I do agree that we cyclists need to look at our own scene and try to make it better. I appreciate that you think that and not condemn the whole scene like a lot of other people do. I hope you decide to ride with us more. We are a great community. And I see a rise in this movement. Help us take it in the right directions.
-Borfo
Has anyone seen this short comic video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAOHhV1EFe4
It pretty much epitomizes the negative traits we have developed in the cycling community. Even we who ride can laugh at it in recognition of some truths.
I think we all understand where this article was coming from. It just seemed to have a narrow focus on who we were, and it has irked some who ride.
We still – “Ride On”!
I have a question Barfo, just for reference. If it comes off accusatory I apologize in advanced, but do you are your partner have a car?
What percentage of Midnight Ridazz have cars?
I’m anti car culture and I’m amazed at how many “hardcore” cyclist have cars or access to one by a signficant other.
Browne
We both own cars.
I have a natural gas powered car that I use commute to work.
My wife has a hybrid that she takes to El Segundo every day.
I try to ride to work at least twice a week and I am hoping to improve that even more. I would like to get to the point where I don’t rely on a car, but that doesn’t seem completely feasible in my situation. My wife is slowly getting turned on to group rides and bicycles. We bought a tandem and that has made things easier. Still have a ways to go to get her into riding, but she supports my wishes.
About Midnight Ridazz – I could only tell you about the core group that have bonded and ride regularly with ride their bikes almost daily to work and a lot of them do not own cars. But I would say only 5 percent of all people who participate in midnight ridazz are car free. The culture of cyclists that are really tight in the cycling community, they are mostly car free. I think their lifestyle and motivation has inspired myself and others who ride in these various group rides that have been growing. The culture is diverse, and growing. Some say it is a fad. I say it’s a movement.
Sorry to burst the image, but most of the thousand of people who make MR ridez are still car people. Those who are dedicated and embedded into the cycling community are not car dependent. (I would say maybe over a hundred. – Just a guess). I support those who are “Hard-Core”, and I admire their efforts and wish to emulate them.
We need to improve. But, we got to start somewhere though.
-Borfo
“But for the sake of your cause, you might also try seeing and critiquing a very real part of your scene; the moralistic anti-driver jerks that don’t understand the concept of sharing the road.”
The interesting thing about “our cause” is that it is not “a cause”. Bike riding is a practical means of achieving an end – getting around in a healthy, fun, clean way.
How would anyone’s “critique” make any difference in the behaviour of cyclists when we live in a culture that produces people ignorant of the law and the best methods for urban cycling?
Critiques are not going to help anyone in this case. Spend a little bit of time thinking about how to affect changes in the way people ride bikes instead of finding faults in the way they do things – and you’ll have something worth talking about.
I really appreciated Julio’s bit on bike riding. Good instructions for drivers:
http://julioac.is-a-geek.org/wordpress/?p=24#more-24
Why can’t bike people supplement their transport needs with the public bus or rail, possibly if they did they might be more understanding of other members of the alt-transportation.
Possibly they wouldn’t ride in front of a bus, because it’s their right. Yeah pretty freakin fair to slow down a but full of working class people, because you got a hobby that you think is real fun, like tattoos.
It’s hard for me to care what someone who has a car says in regards to cars and cars being rude or whatnot, if you have a car you’re part of the problem.
Browne
“This weekend I encountered one of the worst examples of the rude bike rider, a young and hip Latina seemingly buoyed on her sense of two wheel superiority.”
I agree with you. Based on your story, it sounds like she was an elitist moron.
Probably because she’s Latino. They’re all the same. Oh. Wait. That would be racism.
Probably because she’s a woman. They’re all the same. Oh. Wait. That would be sexism.
Probably because she’s young. They’re all the same. Oh. Wait. That would be ageism.
Probably because she’s on a bicycle. They’re all the same. Oh. Wait. That would be stupid.
It took you all day to come up with that? Deep.
“The Bike “Scene” Is All The Same”
Did you just try to compare bike kulture with being an ethnic minority and to having a vagina?
You think cyclist history in the US compares to the genocide of native americans, slavery, the bracero program, the internment camps, the chinese exclusion act, women not being able to buy property on their own in some places in the US until the 1970s, how people without proper paper work are treated right now.
You can get off a bike whenever you want and when you do, it doesn’t leave your meat exposed.
Browne
Browne,
I don’t think that “The Bike Scene Is All The Same” made that great of a point – but your comeback is pretty lame as well.
This noble device has done a lot for people with and without vaginas. It is explicitly excluded from roadway performance measurement and funding in the U.S. This modal discrimination is real and has had a negative effect on human life.
As an example of what bicycles can do for people, here is a quote from the gold standard of all information, Wikipedia:
“The bicycle was recognized by nineteenth-century feminists and suffragists as a “freedom machine” for women. American Susan B. Anthony said in a New York World interview on February 2, 1896: “Let me tell you what I think of bicycling. I think it has done more to emancipate women than anything else in the world. It gives women a feeling of freedom and self-reliance. I stand and rejoice every time I see a woman ride by on a wheel…the picture of free, untrammeled womanhood.”
So, the bike has at least something to do with human rights and having a vagina.
I think it’s outrageous that bike scene person would compare the racism and sexism to bike kulture.
So Ubray if you believe in the cyclist oppression, do you believe in the oppression of minorities or do you think they are just making it up? I got a post up about the bus and why bus riders can’t get tax breaks, my assertion is because its a poor people of color thing and no one values what those people do to help the environment? So what do you think about that since you are being open minded here.
Do you think that minorities just whine too much, I know you’re a minority, but so what, that doesn’t matter lots of minorities like to pretend that certain things aren’t happening, are you one of those people?
Lots of things have to do with human rights, but don’t trivialize real struggles with the struggles of people who have a car and have a bike, because if you have access to a car cycling is just a hobby you are REALLY into.
And that’s what it is if you have a car it’s a freaking hobby.
If you have access to a car, being a cyclist isn’t anything, but a glorified hobby turned into a kulture, because lots of guys with power in LA think it’s fun and have the power to turn it into whatever they want.
Have you been denied a job owing to your bike?
How about housing?
How about poor treatment in an eatery?
Ever have a teacher question your ability because you have a bike?
Ever had your dad stopped while you were on his bike, because some cop wanted to have some fun?
I’m going to bet the white guys that are part of bike kulture have never, ever had any of these things happen to them, so seriously they can go fudge themselves if they want to pretend that a two wheel vehicle even compares a little bit to being a Latino without the proper paperwork in this country, to being a poor chicano or black currently, or the lynching of black men in the south in the 1950s, it is not the same.
And bike people need to have respect for other people outside of their circle, all other alternative groups do, but bike people do not. They are like a gang, but with money, so it’s so much freakin worse.
And look I don’t hate you guys, I just think you guys are a bit closed minded and extremely ignorant and arrogant if you think you’re even a little big like an ethnic minority.
Browne
Your rant-o-meter is obviously set to “bat shit crazy”.
Look, I enjoy a good straw man argument knock-down on the internet as much as anyone else. You’re being ridiculous.
You obviously do not think that anything that has to do with bikes is serious enough to merit anyone’s attention. Unfortunately, your disinterest is not shared by other people, so you come off sounding like an over-educated jackass searching for a victim to spout your “Ise been oppressed!” bullshit to.
Riding a bicycle should be a relatively neutral thing – it is just a way of getting around after all. Bicycling did help push American culture in the favor of women’s rights. Bicyclists fought long and hard to see that Americans roads are publicly funded, and well-paved.
This is not a rebellion against Jim Crow laws, but it is something that anyone riding a bike can think about and be a little bit proud to be a part of in some small way.
I’m sure you’ve got plenty of other straw man arguments you are going to set up, and subsequently kick over, yelping and hollering and wetting your pants in excitement, so I’ll let you run along and get typing.
Also, it is the height of stupidity to assume that just because someone has pale skin in the U.S. that they have not had a hard lot in life.
Most of the people I know who ride bikes regularly have had a hard time of things. Some times, that is what drives them to ride bikes, for legal reasons or for personal reasons.
You can take a look at what type of people hang out in the “bike scene” and try telling me what a “bike scene person” believes. I hang out with a lot of those folks, and I couldn’t begin to know what they think about certain issues, because they come from many different age, social, and demographic groups.
Here are some photos of people in the “bike scene”:
http://ubrayj02.blogspot.com/2008/04/bike-oven-image-motherload.html
http://midnightridazz.com/gallery.php
Oh,no you didn’t…
“…searching for a victim to spout your “Ise been oppressed!†bullshit to.”
Regardless of how you feel about this debate, this kind of derogatory language is totally uncalled for. I’ve been disturbed by some of your other snipes relating to “immigrants” and then this sexist ditty:
“…so I’ll let you run along and get typing.”
Dude, you need to check yourself. And you wonder why some folks in Northeast LA have a problem with macho dudes in the Bike scene.
“Dude, you need to check yourself. And you wonder why some folks in Northeast LA have a problem with macho dudes in the Bike scene.”
browne makes sure everyone on the internet knows she has dark skin, and that she has to deal with all sorts of things because of that. She used bizarre stereotypes about bicycle riders, so I used a bizarre stereotype about people with dark skin.
You can read into what I’ve written any way you please. Thanks for reading it, at least.
I agree with Chimatli, you need to check yourself ubrayj02. Heated discussions are one thing, but the “Ise been oppressed” remark crosses the line. An apology is in order. And don’t be like so many other white guys on LA blogs that try to backtrack by saying “it’s just a word” or “you all are too serious”.
The narrow mindedness of some bike ideologues makes me think of this story in the paper yesterday, about PETA supporting lab-grown meat: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-meat23apr23,1,2800716.story
In an effort to not kill animals they want to introduce even more vile food concepts to the world. When you get so focused on just your one issue and can’t see the connections it has with the rest of the world, then you really are losing touch.
I have noticed that many folks with serious chips on their shoulders (about not being “oppressed enough”, or recieving some semblence of wealth or privelege) tend to overdo their own personal struggles in an attempt to overcompensate, and attack folks who have genuinely been oppressed on a major scale to feel batter about themselves. The most obvious and prevalent version of this is white men or wealthy folks pulling the “you are discriminating against me” crap about minority or gender struggles and empowerment ideologies/organizations, but it is manifesting quite rapidly among the “liberal” entitled masses that are rediscovering our central city, especially the bikerider and hipster genre. Instead of looking at black or brown (or women or gays or whatever) oppression compassionately (or even realistically), they tend to view the victims in a cynical competitive manner, dying to find something to “get over them” on. Minorities and oppressed peoples also tend to do this when they develop a consciousness about social issues and what’s right/wrong without the internal emotional work needed to act ont he issue in a mature manner
I cut my self off by accident,
Anyways, like overly radical idealogues, these folks tend to be “looking for something” at all times at whatever cost. As a Latino guy from the barrio who sometimes comes off as a bit unrefined, I get a lot of hostility from many of these insecure folks, and it took me a while to figure out what their motivation was (beyond over self righteousness). Most of these people do not realize how arrogant and assholish they come off in their eternal quest to look and be viewed as cool becuase they do not come from a background of struggle where one HAS to be aware of their surroundings and considerate to those around them. I do not know ubray that well, and actually like a lot of what he says, but his actions have made me think of him in that light.
El Chavo noted several times that he is complaining about a FACET of the bicycle folks (not all of them) and that it is from SEVERAL experiences and the opinions of folks around the scene, of which I tend to agree. From my own experience of ubray attacking me personally, basically telling me to be quiet because (I think) he did not agree with my position, and then noting my list of bonafied facts to back up my opinion was “just complaining to complain”; it seems as if he is very “black and white” (a telltale sign of a chip on one’s shoulder) and has a penchant to attack people and tell and insist that they stop making opinions he does not agree with. Pretty annoying if you ask me, and the epitome of the arrogance that annoys the shite out of me when dealing with these young hipster-urban-bike folks which my cholo-relative ass lumps into one group (like the classic rock stoners and punkers I sold drugs to in highschool), I really wish he had the humility to check his behavior because he seems allright otherwise.
I also want to note (as El Chavo did), that I fully support the bike use and whole non arrogant bike movement in LA. I too have fond memories of my personally built mongoose and diamondback bikes, and the Downtown missions over the bridge on them, and how pissed i was when one got stolen and I was beaten up for the other (remember drilling holes in dice so they could be put in your spokes, how about Rudy’s bikes?). I also have met TONS of bike folks who are genuinely cool people with no shoulder chippage. Cheers to them, jeers to highland park hipsters not realizing cars will squash them.
and to even it out, jeers to assholes drivers, all 7 million of them.
Very interesting. Riding a bike is hard. Bad knees.
I think most of the people who I am in an online argument with right now would like to agree with me, if I weren’t such an asshole about things. I’m sorry about that. If it makes you feel any better, my word is basically worthless. I have no power or control over your life, nor would I want to have it. Some people said some things I disagree with, I shot back, and I’m not ashamed or embarassed about what I’ve said.
You can attribute as many lame, straw-man, arguments you want to me. I’m “macho”, “white”, or racist – whatever. I have worked my ass off trying to make my neighborhood a better place to live. When someone tries to write off something I love as being too white, too male, too arrogant, etc. I will respond in kind.
I am a rude, hateful, person. My ideas do not come from a place of happiness and light – they come from a source of anger and contempt.
I’m sorry, I’m not running for office, so I don’t “check myself” in order to protect anyone else’s feelings of entitlement about being oppressed. I’m also sorry that this has turned into a discussion about what an asshole I am (which I would readily admit) instead of what a heaping pile of bullshit this idea of the an arrogant “Bike Kulture” is.
When I try to get elected, go ahead and pull up whatever quotes you want to run negative mailers with or whatever. Until then, I would suggest trying to address the content of what I’ve written. The psychological puffery of someone trying to guess where I am coming from (because I am “white”, “male”, “arrogant”, etc.) is pointless (and false) and doesn’t really serve to counter anything I’ve written.
Oh, that response. I figured you would be too right and your ideas too perfect that you can’t fathom an apology, it comes with the territory. Your good works don’t excuse your lousy insults.
I’ve already been written off by Brown for owning a car. (I’ve got to admit, she affected me to think about it) I’ll probably be even more shunned for speaking my mind here, but here’s my final piece.
Going back to Midnight Ridazz and cycling in groups like Critical Mass and the like:
I find that there is an inclusiveness that embraces anyone of any financial status, race, gender, sexual preference. It becomes a community where people get out of cars and get together and ride and have fun. (I don’t see any elitist, macho crap you guys are talking about here.)
Cars have become a status symbol for some people. For me, bicycles tend to break that status level image. Except for some hard core roadie types. But even then, a bike is a bike. I found my bike for 15 dollars at a yard sale and got it fixed up at the Bike Oven and I’ve been riding now more than I ever have in all my life. It’s not some super duper carbon frame thing, and I can still haul ass.
Bicycles can eliminate racism and sexism by getting people together.
Riding a bicycle in groups sends a message whether we are trying to or not. It makes people who never ride curious or those who always drive nervous. There’s something going on. It’s a bicycle revolution. People are coming together to do what they want and peace and flowers and all that jazz.
Join us…
Or learn to practice patience – Because we aren’t going away.
Way back up the thread Browne wrote, “if you have access to a car cycling is just a hobby you are REALLY into.”
At first read of that I felt some indignation, but upon further review I really can’t disagree with that assessment, even if it’s so strictly drawn and implies any entry I might make into enviro heaven will be tainted with an asterisk because of some sort of lack of absolute commitment on my part. Personally I prefer a wider-angle POV than that provided by absolutes.
I own a truck and will always maintain some form of four-wheeled transportation because it’s a tool I need and use. I certainly hope one day to reduce my dependency on oil with a hybrid or electric conveyance, but until then it’s me and my ’97 Nissan pick-up taking the dog to the vet or hauling the load from Costco. If that means I’ll never be more than a cycling hobbiest in Browne’s eyes, that’s her prerogrative.
Personally, I’m not much a fan of absolutes, but I’m an encourager of alternate points of view and we’ve seen a bunch resulting from El Chavo’s post. The dialogue might not have been constructive all the time, but it’s better than a vacuum.
Anyway, I’m rambling and more than likely way off topic so I’ll close with respect for El Chavo, Browne, Art, Ubrayj and Borfo and everyone and a FWIW: In the past 10 days I’ve put eight miles on my truck and 250 miles on bike, so I’d say I at least qualify for “REALLY REALLY into cycling” status.
The one thing I don’t get about Ubray is that El Chavo specifically singled out the project he works on, Bike Oven as an example of the kind of community biking stuff that’s cool. Reading back through the post and comments, I’m wondering if folks really took the time to read people’s words or just got defensive because the post was somewhat critical.
I’m sure most people who have contributed to this discussion would much rather see a city based on alternative forms of transportation, I mean they said so explicitly. No one is anti-bicycle, some of us are just anti-moralism. I’m vegetarian and I criticize vegetarians who get all moral too.
Chimatli.
There is nothing really bad about El Chavo’s blog.
It was the LA Times Blog that referenced it that set us off. It seemed kind of brash, and it put us on the defensive… Kulturally speaking.